To think well done to the actors standing up to try to prevent trump from entering the white house

[jdoe8]

Well done to them, they are risking their popularity in order to try to help keep someone unfit from office and a change to the political landscape that would be detrimental to the country.

Where is the same for UK actors standing up against brexit?

Trump didn't really win the election though, did he. Clinton polled more votes. The Russians interfered. We are unlikely to ever know the real result. I wish I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but I have neither time nor energy.

Dawndonnaagain

I wish I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but I have neither time nor energy.

For someone with no energy for it you are making a good start.

And clinton didn't win, under the rules of the electoral college trump did.

Really? You think millionaire entertainment stars are representing anyone's interests but their own? They are given a platform for their alleged talents not to lecture people whose lives they have never lived. It's all well and good been pro open borders loonies lefty when your living in a gated community in Calafornia and not on a border town where shootings and robberies are every day occurances.

Who do you think benefits from labour surpluses, university booms, the service economy? Because it ain't the working classes of the West I tell you know.

Trump is not as bad as the NYT or Huffpost would have you believe, many of his alleged claims have been twisted and manipulated by mainstream media, if you actually bother to research what he stands for you might release he's not 'literally Hitler'. I'd love to know what evidence people have to back up their claims against him. Wants to build a wall to replace a fence? Yep racist. Wants to attack Islamic fundamentalism properly? Yep authoritarian.

Anti Trump supporters were the ones screaming how the vote needs to be respected or democracy is at stake before the result, what a bunch of hypocrites. The Electoral College has its place to prevent an American political scene dominated by the coasts, people are only criticising it now because they lost the election.

What do you think is going to happen if you manage to underhandly prevent Trump and Brexit? Do you think the people who supported it are going to go home and be like 'oh well maybe next year'. No they are going to be incensed, they are going to think democracy is a sham and I wouldn't be able to blame them. And once they think it is a sham they will start looking for alternative ways to assert their political agency and one of the most popular in the history of humanity outside of democracy is dragging people out of their homes and lining them up against the wall.

If this year has taught me anything it is that huge proportions of this country care more about winning than democracy, if remain and Clinton had won I'd be saying the exact same thing. You respect democracy because it is the only thing stopping us regressing into the days of political purges, sectarian riots, conventional warfare and instability. If people lose hope that they can change their lives in the way THEY see fit through fair political processes then we are ALL screwed.

And also we are the first to sh1t on the 'ignorant yanks' when they stick their nose into our business, unless you have significant knowledge and experience off life in the USA I really wouldn't go sticking your nose in where it isn't wanted.

BoneyBack
Clinton polled more votes.
My only take on this to be honest is that Trump really isn't fit to be president, if the republicans won, so be it, but for crying out loud, choose someone with a brain to be president.

Dawn But it doesn't matter whether you think Trump is fit or not. There was an election for president and the electorate chose him. Do you really not believe in democracy? Do you think some people have the right to overturn results they don't like? Who has that right, and by what means?

Rale put it well-

You respect democracy because it is the only thing stopping us regressing into the days of political purges, sectarian riots, conventional warfare and instability. If people lose hope that they can change their lives in the way THEY see fit through fair political processes then we are ALL screwed

This is my fear too. I think those who are happy to throw over democracy really need to be able explain what their alternative is. No-one has mentioned any alternative yet. I would genuinely like to know what you envisage - tanks on the streets? removing the vote from anyone who voted the "wrong way", a one party state? What do you want if you don't want democracy?

Hear, hear, Wrongtrouser. The anti-democratic rhetoric coming from the Left since Brexit has been very worrying.

Dawndonnaagain

UKIP polled more votes than the SNP, but they have fewer MPs because that is the way our system works.

Clinton lost because that is how the American system works.

Both had more votes but they didn't win.

Dawndonna- In the 2010 elections the Tories got a huge majority in terms of the popular vote yet they had to form a coalition with the Lib Dems (who got far less of the popular vote) because that is the way our electoral system has been built. Likewise, UKIP got a large share of the popular vote (far more than the Lib Dems) in the 2015 election yet they have one mp, whilst the Lib Dems have something like eight even though their share of the popular vote was far less. It seems unfair but that is the electoral system in this country. It's hypocritical to criticise the system when your candidate loses and support it when your candidate wins. And there are plenty of people who thought Hillary Clinton was not fit to be President and voted against her.

You think millionaire entertainment stars are representing anyone's interests but their own?

Describes trump to a T

Oooh epic bold fail

Really gets my goat that "celebrities" feel the right to preach on any subject. Fame and fortune does not make you an expert, UK celebs opinion on Brexit is equally annoying whichever side they are on.

The American people wouldn't stand for the result being over turned. They carry arms for this very reason. I dread to think what would happen.

Mumofone, why on earth can't they comment? Some of them are extremely well educated and they've thought long and hard about what to do and how to use their status. They have as much right as anybody else to express an opinion.

Dawndonna -Mumofone, why on earth can't they comment? Some of them are extremely well educated and they've thought long and hard about what to do and how to use their status. They have as much right as anybody else to express an opinion.

Of course they can comment. But their opinions are no more valid than dockworkers, accountants, miners, doctors, binmen etc who don't have easy access to the media. Also, just because they might be educated doesn't give them political knowledge or experience and doesn't qualify them with being given more respect than anyone else out there (in fact I would say because they are coming from a privileged position, they actually have less real world experience since it is unlikely they are affected by many of the things that normal workers are facing).

But once again, the video just comes across as patronising and sanctimonious, as though they have absolute true knowledge and will deign to "respect" any little person who follows their wishes (and they were all slagging off Republicans before the election, so this video just comes across as hypocritical sucking up, now they need Republicans voters to do something that suits them!).

I think the left is trying to drag us back into the days of wealthy elites which Marx originally tried to combat which shows just how much the supposed 'left' has been subverted into a movement representing wealthy people who believe they know what's best for the poor and ordinary workers rather than a party actually representing ordinary workers.

The whole rhetoric of ordinary people are thick lumpen masses who don't know what's good for them and should be guided by their betters would not be out of place at a convention of 19th century mill owners opposing Chartists.

Glad to know then you'll be supporting the striking workers at BA, the Post Office and on the rails. Ordinary working people who can see what's good for themselves then BSD.

Bill I fear you are right, but how are they squaring that with their beliefs? I am genuinely really struggling to see what people who do not want democracy want. Do they just want all the trappings of democracy, but with no actual decisions or power affected by democracy?

I'm finding it odd that no-one who is advocating overturning the election of Trump is interested in engaging in a discussion about alternatives to democracy.

Obviously, people can post or not post as they wish, but I would have thought that if you feel sufficiently strongly that we should be overthrowing a democratic vote, you would have given some thought to the implications of this on our political systems, and the risks of chucking away our hard fought for democratic rights.

Or is it all just knee-jerk "Stop Trump" without any thought for the enormous, and frankly terrifying implications? In which case, perhaps some people need to think through the ramifications a bit more.

OP you may have worded your title as:

"AIBU to think well done to the actors standing up to try to prevent trump from entering the white house!"

What you're actually asking, in truth, is this:

"AIBU to think well done to the overpaid, fame hungry actors with their own personal agendas for trying to overturn democracy and the collective will of millions of American citizens to prevent trump from rightfully entering the white house"

Trump won. Brexit won. Democracy has once again prevailed. Get over it.

wrong

Correct me if i have misunderstood

My understanding with our democratic process is that its first past the post so constituency votes for an mp, most mps wins

So a bit like the electoral thingy the americans have

An argument could be made that proportional representation might be 'fairer' (not by me...i have no clue)

So someone could quite rightly say that they think the democratic process is flawed/crap but not be against democracy as such

Not debating the trump/clinton thing

Rufus I agree that it is possible to think our current process is flawed but not be against democracy, and just want an improved version. Personally I would like to see proportional representation, I think it would be a massive improvement and I suspect the country would not be facing the horrible division it is if we had it.

But we did have a referendum on PR and people voted against it. If people want to change the system, that's great, they should be campaigning to do so and if enough people agree, it will be changed. Similarly with the US system. I don't know a great deal about it, and it doesn't seem perfect. But take the example of the difference between the popular vote and the result. If people aren't happy, they need to campaign to change it. What is undemocratic is to wait until you get a result you don't like and then say you won't accept it. The people saying Trump's win is invalid would no doubt not be kicking up a fuss if HC had lost the popular vote but won the presidency.

So it is fine (and good imo) for people to want to change the democratic system, but until and unless it is changed, people need to accept the results of the system we have, even when they don't like them.

And this is what I am questioning, because some people seem to be suggesting that a legitimate result be overthrown. You can democratically change your system of democracy, but it is undemocratic to overthrow a legitimate democratic result.

But you have absolutely no clue whether people have been complaining about the process before

What we do know is that its being reported and is snow balling

I will be honest, i have not seen the link and have no idea what they are saying

My understanding is that the referendum on PR was flawed and the option that the government wanted us to vote on was the very worst of a very bad deal. Again i could be wrong, its just what i remember

Should an election result ever be overthrown? Yes i think there will always be times when it should, luckily i dont think there has ever been cause in most democracies to do that. Should the trump election be overthrown? Probably not...

But I don't think whether people have been campaigning to change the process or not is relevant.

It's a very flawed system in the UK, and from what little I know the US system seems less than perfect.

But it is what we have got at the moment, and until we, democratically, agree to change it, people need to respect it, even when that doesn't suit them.

I really think anyone advocating ignoring a democratic result really needs to have considered the implications of undermining democracy, which I think would be far more serious than any harm one individual politician can do.

Remember the first Marxist revolution, in Russia in October 1917, was led by a small cadre of 'professional revolutionaries' who were middle class, elitist and claimed to be acting 'on behalf' of the working masses. Yet who benefited?

Patronising, elitist leadership is nothing new to the Left.