...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

What if they did hate their developing body, and have had a series of negative events happen to them due to their sex? Should they not be allowed to talk about it?

You have missed my point. I never said they should not be allowed to talk about it. Equally I am entitled to say I find such negativity wearing; to the point I would not want a young girl reading it and thinking basically her life is going to be crap.

The response I got was that these comments had never been made "prove it" "provide links"- I was making it up.

You find it wearingly negative, that's your interpretation of the threads you've seen. Perhaps other people are asking which threads because they haven't interpreted the discussion as negatively as you and are therefore puzzled by what you mean?

Comments were made about how much posters had hated their female body during puberty , how much they had hated being girls. The response I got was these comments had not been made- I was making them up.

I imagine it was easy enough to prove them wrong and make those posters claiming that look pretty foolish.

I've certainly made comments like that, Lass, but in my case (and in the cases I can recall where other posters have said similar) have gone on to say "but now I am at ease with my body", or "as an adult I like my female body".

Lass I made comments like that. I spoke as an individual who didn't recognise the experience that there is such a thing as feeling like a woman or that so called cis women grew up happy in their gender. I had to adapt to my changing body and it took time.
It wasn't meant to disrespect anyone else. I don't think the thread was in feminism but in Chat but I am probably wrong!

These aren't the sorts of comments I'm talking about (as I suspect you know), it's conversations where personal experiences and opinions which don't 'fit' with the acceptable view (which is absolutely how the FWR boards operate) are negated, belittled, ignored and mocked. The shouts for 'link' are absolutely a strategy to try and shut people down.

On reflection, having read this thread, I think my conclusion is that some of the posters on the FWR are fundamentalist feminists and this is what makes me reluctant to identify with feminism. Like fundamentalists of any sort, logic and reason fly out of the window, views are extreme and the holders of those views are not open to rational debate. The irony is that some of the strategies for shutting down that debate are ones accepted (but not acknowledged) for years as ways of not listening to women's genuine concerns about their treatment in society.

I've certainly made comments like that, Lass, but in my case (and in the cases I can recall where other posters have said similar) have gone on to say "but now I am at ease with my body", or "as an adult I like my female body"

But it's not just bodies - it's the sheer negativity- "girls will experience"-list of terrible things "girls will be told" - list of things society supposedly will tell girls to do or not to do. It's almost wish fulfilling.

If I had a daughter I would not wish her to determine what being a woman will be like from the way it's presented on FWR.

Lass generally feminists are of the opnion that we still need feminism. Surely those things you are referring to form part of that argument? The sorts of things which are still happening to women and girls? I certainly don't hate my body or being female, but that doesn't mean I don't recognise sexism and discrimination when I see it, and the fact that I see those things perpetrated on a daily basis is why I'm a feminist.

Maybe it depends how you read a post 'girls will...'. If you're reading it as 'all girls will inevitably...' it'd be grim. As a rejector of generalisations, I read it as the more reasonable 'some girls will sometimes...'

Men asking genuine questions and who are prepared to listen are not generally accused of being MRAs

I was, but I think sometimes 'prepared to listen' means just agree with us

I didn't answer you but from memory I didn't have the impression you were posting in good faith.

On MN they are generally told to go and read up on the subject

In my experience FWR posters are very happy to share and explain their point of view. Questions which appear disingenuous may be met with the reading up suggestion, and why not?

Mortificado, I guess the reason behind that is that everyone brings their own bias to the conversation. Very few would admit that though

I have been told I don't qualify as a feminist on the FWR boards here. So now when anyone asks I say I'm not and explain why. Strangely before I attempted to engage with the orthodoxy on the feminist boards here (in a previous existence) , nobody ever questioned my feminist credentials.

Sad that.

What were you told stopped you 'qualifying', gerda?

Gerda that's the sort of assertion that I would ask you to colour in a bit though. There must be more to it, was it one person saying in their opinion your views do not align with their definition, or the whole board? Was it a particularly divisive topic? Lots of feminists disagree with each other.

The idea that "feminism" is some kind of hive mind is misogynistic, patriarchal brainwashing at its finest

This is a wonderful example of the reason I have an involuntary twitch whenever someone says they're a feminist. Believe it or not, not everything can be blamed on men. Suggesting that 93% of women do not identify as feminists is nothing to do with patriarchal constructs. There are two reasons for it.

1 - feminism in the UK / USA / most 1st world countries has won. The pay gap is a myth. It is illegal to discriminate on sex. If it happens, sue someones arse. Stop talking about micro-aggression, gendering, rape culture and all that bullshit.

2 - feminism is not about equality. It used to be. It is now about weakness, nastiness and looking for someone to blame for your problems, should they exist (which they almost certainly don't). It's about finding ever smaller reasons to complain be it blue or pink toys, manspreading or some other perceived slight.

The fact that MRA is such a derided term is another fantastic example of why I treat feminists with contempt. It shows their hypocrisy and misandry.

We have the word egalitarian. I am absolutely one. I believe in equality. As the mother of two sons, I have become an MRA. In the UK at least, boys and men are more in need of help yet whiny women will contend this to the bitter end.

I've worked in schools and education for the majority of my life. I think that the main area that feminists are wrong is their belief that men and women are the same. We aren't. We are different mentally and physically. I see this every single day. This doesn't mean that women should have fewer rights or different expectations but moaning about gendered toys or those MN'ers who seem to see it as a badge of honour that their boy wore dresses and played with dolls whilst their daughters love cars are confused at best.

Someone posted on a thread recently that they thought that because women take twice as long in the bathroom as men, equality meant they should have twice as many bathrooms. I thought, get to fuck, you're giving women a bad name. How about we learn to piss a little quicker rather than moaning. We want equality or not.

The image attached, was proof by the poster, of why we need feminism or some other nonsense. To me, it sums up why the feminism is fucked. Why should men be given a smaller box to stand on? Raise you game or fuck the fuck off. My vagina has never held me back. I lost a couple of years on the career ladder when I chose to have children, but why should I have an artificially inflated wage due to my choices.

tl;dr

feminism isn't needed any more. Those that still exist are twats who have missed the point. They give women a bad name and the sooner the 7% becomes even more insignificant the better.

Those of you who frequent the board must know that not agreeing with the orthodoxy there will ensure that you are made to feel very unwelcome . I'm not the only one on this thread to have mentioned it. I'm sure the regulars there are absolutely sick of defending their thought process to femininsts posters who think differently. It's fine. I hang out in different feminist corners of the internet where new-comers are debated with rather than hectored until they go away, and I'd really much rather not post in a bubble.

It's not all of the posters there that have such a defensive posting style, but it's enough to not make me want to go back.

No problem. It's not my trainset, and it's not the only place for feminist discussion on the web.

Feeling unwelcome and being told you do not belong are not the same though. I would hope it was only the first - the only people I see told they do not belong is those sharing similar inputs to Mist!!

I was told that I could not be a feminist thinking how I did. I have been here long enough not to want to trawl through my posting history to find the thread. And why should I? I'm not the only one here who has said the same thing. I'm not alone, and it's only here that I'm not a feminist.

Gerda if you don't mind me asking, where else would you recommend for a better quality of feminist discussion? Thanks.

the only people I see told they do not belong is those sharing similar inputs to Mist!!

Yes, because safe spaces shouldn't be invaded by anyone with opposing opinions.

As far as I can tell, this extends into those "corners of the internet where feminism is debated" and beyond into real life. For real debate to happen, opposing opinions need to be understood and questioned, not simply told to shut up or dismissed because it doesn't align with your ideas.

The la-la-la I'm not listening approach has got membership of feminism down to 7%, perhaps it's time for a change of attititude?

Gerda

"Feminists told me I couldn't be a feminist thinking as I did"

"Oh really, tell us more, what was the thinking?"

"No, can't be arsed, why should I tell you!"

And this is how it goes........

Yep. But only here strangely.

Nobodies stopping you (general you) posting though mist, even if you are told you do not belong. I could go along to the kennels and post about how I don't have a dog, I wouldn't belong but I wouldn't be breaking any rules.

What Gerda so if someone on another forum asks you to explain a bit more about what you mean, you're ok to answer? Just not here?