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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be annoyed that private schools have charity funding.

665 replies

Olympiathequeen · 15/12/2016 10:14

They are not charities, they are businesses.

They do little or nothing for the local community.

They benefit by about £750 mil. They part fund bursaries for around half that amount.

Leaving them with a tidy little £300+ million profit at the expense of the taxpayers.

That money is desperately needed for public schools.

WTAF is the government doing?

OP posts:
KERALA1 · 17/12/2016 08:15

Nope. Couldn't agree less. Saying something is "true" does not make it so.

BertrandRussell · 17/12/2016 08:16

"doubt they would look at the private school for sn children and feel as aggrieved."

They might if they had a child with special educational needs.........

Headofthehive55 · 17/12/2016 08:18

I also dispute the removal of cultural capital argument.
The argument goes that if all these privately educated children are distributed into states schools then it will help the state school. I'm not sure it's that simple. it becomes so dilute that it makes no difference.

BertrandRussell · 17/12/2016 08:20

SAHD- point me to one piece of misinformation.

Headofthehive55 · 17/12/2016 08:22

But you may only be buying what the state provides in other counties.

WalkerCreeps · 17/12/2016 08:25

Really 'ADHD Adrian' ? Nice Hmm which other terms do you have for children with SN? Autistic Joe? Cerebral Palsy Patsy? Why stop there nasty piece of work.

Headofthehive55 · 17/12/2016 08:30

I do feel that the best way is to provide parents with an excellent state system, which parents wish to buy into.
I think that needs a culture shift and change in attitudes though, not necessarily more money.

BertrandRussell · 17/12/2016 09:15

"I think that needs a culture shift and change in attitudes though, not necessarily more money."

What sort of things do you have in mind?

JacquesHammer · 17/12/2016 09:23

ReallyTired that's a very unpleasant post.

My DD's private prep is non-selective, there are also a number of children with additional needs who are catered for excellently. The ones I know of through volunteering have all moved midway through from the state system where they were let down.

I don't pay for my child to be away from any type of child. I do pay for her to be in an educational setting that works for her.

DancingDinosaur · 17/12/2016 09:29

if they want to spend £1m on a new swimming pool they need to put £3m into bursaries or into providing advanced mathematics for the gifted and talented stream at the local comprehensive

I'm sure you would like to see that. Despite the fact that people have donated their money to one cause, which is their right, you'd like it removed and diverted to another of your choosing. Righty ho Hmm Personally i'd prefer to give up the relatively small tax break and remove obligations alongside that Smile

ReallyTired · 17/12/2016 09:45

"Parents like you are the reason I moved my very bright 13 year old out of a snooty environment."

My children attend state schools which are non selective. There are times that lessons have been written off due to poor behaviour of one or two children. It's not ideal, but the advantages of free education means that parents have to except inclusion. Some parents pick church schools where the faith criteria makes it hard for difficult children to get a place.

Do you think that top private schools take challenging children/ children with additional needs? It's not me who decides admissions for the top hundred private schools in the country. Is my fault that Eton only wants gifted teenage boys who are capable of a high level of independence?

YelloDraw · 17/12/2016 10:09

So many people are such hypocrites about education. Hand wringing about private education whilst happily playing the selection-by-stealth game (house prices/religion/grammar). Oh, or by going to an academy that can fuck off SN or disruptive kids because they have no duty to take all where as the LA does.

mo ey buys you opportunities and choice, and that extends to making choices about your children's education.

i could go onto a massive rant about the policy of inclusion in mainstream which often leads to children with SN sitting in a mainstream school but very much not able to fully engage and not have the required support. And how the hell are teachers meant to teach a Y6 class of 30. A couple of which are super bright. Most are average. A good handful are disruptive as fuck. Some are going to have mild difficulties. There might be 2 or 3 with sever difficulties both educationally or behaviourally.

And all this about 'the real world'. At work no one pinches me or is continually shouting out. No one is kicking off. No one is having a melt down. So I fail to see how being taught in such a mixed class is helpful for 'the real world'.

YelloDraw · 17/12/2016 10:13

My sister is very liberal. Very against private education. Moved house about 500m to ensure they are in the primary and secondary catchment. House is now over £2m.

Primary school has a super small catchment area. Not exactly diverse in any way - ethnically or economically,

Honestly I think that is worse than just paying for private education.

DancingDinosaur · 17/12/2016 10:18

I think it was your disparaging tone towards children with additional needs that was the issue here reallytired. Just saying like....,

And of course people don't pay to have the class disrupted. Thats not rocket science is it or a surprise is it. Although some private schools do manage to support children with additional needs quite well. They're not all the same. But regardless of that if people are paying thousands a year directly out of their own pocket, then they expect their children to get their lessons uninterrupted. Regardless of how the school delivers that, either by providing additional support to children with sn, or not including children with additional needs.

JacquesHammer · 17/12/2016 10:20

Do you think that top private schools take challenging children/ children with additional needs?

Well yes - my DD's is one of the top Preps in the country. It takes challenging children/children with additional needs.

lottieandmia · 17/12/2016 10:24

ReallyTired - it IS your fault that you feel it's ok to openly spout nasty bigotry about children who have SEN on a public forum and to speak about them in the most disparaging of terms. You clearly don't care about my feelings or the feelings of any other parents who have children with SEN. Shame on you.

WalkerCreeps · 17/12/2016 10:29

I think it was your disparaging tone towards children with additional needs that was the issue here reallytired. Just saying like....,

Reallytired ^^This., being the issue! Not your weak moronic attempt at deflecting the issue to top private schools and their admissions process.

BertrandRussell · 17/12/2016 10:29

It is frustrating when a discussion is about one thing- in this case private education- and people say "Ah, but look at this other thing- that's worse"!

GrumpyInsomniac · 17/12/2016 10:37

It's been an interesting thread. Our son is currently at a state primary that has, to be blunt, failed him. We've applied for a number of state secondaries for next September, but the number of those that really suit him is maybe two, and one of those he won't get because the realistic catchment area is so tiny. The other will be over-subscribed and it's anyone's guess whether he'll get in. The remainder of the schools on the list are the least worst options of what's left, but not great for him.

So we've applied for a local private school and their means-tested bursary. Having submitted the statement of means we would qualify for a 100% bursary if he's offered a place. It's been an eye opener. The school is lovely, has great facilities, and the kind of quietly nerdy atmosphere that would suit our son. At the same time, there was plenty in the initial test his state primary hadn't covered, syllabus-wise, and I now have to try and tutor him if he's to succeed in the entrance exam in a few weeks, which has served to highlight the existing gap between state primary and prep school.

I feel conflicted about it all. I went to a good grammar myself, come from working class stock and was first in my family to attend university. I believe strongly in state education, despite it letting our son down at primary level. But this is his future we are guiding, and his well-being over the next few years. I could not afford private school fees, but in our circumstances I'm really not going to turn down a full bursary if it's offered, because I have to do what is best for my son, and right now, that would be the private school.

ViewBasket · 17/12/2016 10:56

It's fascinating how right-wing a lot of people on MN are about private education, when the views on here on most other topics are often more left-wing.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 17/12/2016 11:11

I am glad to read on here that children who have extra needs are being supported in private education

Sadly I know a few people who found the opposite happened that's why I question how non selective private schools can be

My ds school hasn't got great facilities but classes are small he gets the support one to one or in very small groups where it is needed

On the flip side he is expected to do a lot of homework and the pressure is put on them from a young age that seems less so with friends children who go to state schools (and very good schools). Many children are privately tutored (that isn't openly spoken about for some reason) and this raises the bar which is difficult for the teachers to deal with

Overall I am very happy with his school but would prefer less pressure put on him. The state school he got into he wouldn't have done so well there is no point in claiming he would their results are not good though somehow managed to get a very good ofstead report Confused

Babypassport · 17/12/2016 11:13

"I think that needs a culture shift and change in attitudes though, not necessarily more money"

This, with bells on.

I'm a teacher and have worked in both state and private schools and I'd say that, by and large, family attitudes determine a child's success. Kids can do extremely well in state schools and fail in private schools, the only difference bring that in private schools kids don't fail as badly because they are lucky enough to have the extra support they need to scrape through.

Studies have also shown that the gap in attainment is often in evidence by 18 months of age, suggesting again that family has a greater impact on learning than does education. I'm not saying that private schools don't give an advantage, but I think looking solely at finance is not the best starting point to increase educational attainment.

brasty · 17/12/2016 11:39

But why should private schools get charity benefits? Pay for private education if you can afford it, but no way should taxpayers be subsidising it.

DancingDinosaur · 17/12/2016 12:02

bratsy, the cost of the tax break is around £600 per year to me. The cost of school place I contribute towards through my tax, but don't take up costs around £5500 give or take a bit. (Saving the government the cost of funding my child.) From the pot you take out £5500 per year for your child's education, I take £600 (much less). We both pay in to the pot through our tax (assuming you work.) i'll say it again, just so you really get it. We BOTH pay tax (assuming you work that is). BOTH. Not just you. So its not YOUR tax payer money, its OURS. And something that I take less of than you by the way.

Despite that you'd like my tax break to go because I can afford it. Sorry but you sound ridiculous imo. But I'd be happy to give it up anyway, and in return private schools aren't obliged do anything to support the state schools unless they choose to individually. And then you can stop whinging about it can't you. I'm sure you won't though

FrostyLeaves · 17/12/2016 12:10

Enthusiasm I know a few children in private school s because of SEN.

There is a nearish school with small classes and where they will adapt to the child more than our big rather soulless comp. I don't think in their shoes I would have paid but who knows? I am glad they could make the choice. And other kids have places at the oversubscribed comp. And the local council saves money overall..