To be annoyed that private schools have charity funding.

[Olympiathequeen]

They are not charities, they are businesses.

They do little or nothing for the local community.

They benefit by about £750 mil. They part fund bursaries for around half that amount.

Leaving them with a tidy little £300+ million profit at the expense of the taxpayers.

That money is desperately needed for public schools.

WTAF is the government doing?

It's

By 'realistic option' do you mean schools that 90% of local children attend? These schools aren't a realistic option for your children?

I take it these other schools have no qualified teachers and none of the children take or pass any exams?

They do indeed. Although on the plus side, as I would have moved house to be near a better school otherwise, at least I didn't take that better state school place from someone else who couldn't afford private eh.

And I may well be helping perpetrate an indefensible system, as you put it, but quite frankly, I don't care. My choice was between a failing school and private. I took private because I can. You don't like that? Tough.

I agree OP. People talk about bursaries to private schools. But 100% bursaries are rare, and even then you usually have to pay for an expensive school uniform. I wonder how many kids on FSM go to a private school?

Dinosaur, the OP does not say you should not send your DC to a private school. OP is saying that private schools should not get the benefits that charities do.

But it's not tax payers who are footing the bill! In fact as many posters are pointing out, private school pupils do not get double the amount from the state. Their removal from the state sector allows more to be spent on state pupils.

"It's the others we need to be thinking about"

People who pay for private schools generally want to put their child in a learning environment entirely free from poor and struggling children. Which is what the private sector supplies: a pleb free social setting so their children are shielded from the real world.

It's just a shame that so many of these privileged, shielded children go on to take up positions of power and influence.

no one is disputing that

but then how many people can afford to buy or rent a property in the small catchment areas for outstanding schools

Not many

mini some don't run the subjects that are of interest to your child.

The real world has many aspects. It's a different world, in some private schools, but it is indeed real

I know that Bratsy, already answered that one way back. Think the discussion has moved on from that now though hasn't it....

My privilaged shielded children come from quite a working class background really. They don't spend all their time at school you know

Always makes me laugh when posters bang on about the 'real world', do you not realise that the real world has many facets to it? Just depends which aspect you're looking at. Both private and state educated are experiencing the real world. It's a good thing for both sides to experience each other to be rounded.

I cannot say that I put my dc in private schools because I wanted them to be away from poorer children (although if I had it would be no ones fucking business). I chose private largely because I felt my ds with asd had no chance of navigating a class of 34 and the lea wouldn't let us put in the support we wanted for him. If that's an immoral choice I believe I can live with that; the opinions of dictatorial people who are fortunate enough not to have faced my situation are of little interest to me, except as they provide amusement.

Wow, that's offensive ReallyTired.

Where I live, the private schools only just about manage to break even if they're lucky. There is one exception to the rule who has connections to our cathedral.

My children have all been in and out of various state/private schools. I would say that we are living in a time where people are not choosing private schools as much as 20 years ago and the result is class sizes that are too small and the same stifling friendship issues day in, day out. In London this may not be the case but I moved my daughter from her all girls private school into state because there were 10 in the year, including her and she found it very oppressive indeed. She really has never looked back.

ReallyTired - what a load of ignorant BS. I have a 7 year old child with ADHD - she is not disruptive, she has problems with executive functioning. Parents like you are the reason I moved my very bright 13 year old out of a snooty environment.

I don't have a problem with independent schools having charitable status per se but there are a couple of changes I'd like to introduce.

Firstly, (not too different to what happens with Universities) there should be "international" fees paid by the ultra-wealthy from all over the world who choose to send their kids to get a traditional British boarding school education. For foreign pupils there should be a significant tax on those fees to ensure that non-British rich people aren't benefitting from the tax breaks these charities have.

Secondly, some of the most successful private schools have a phenomenal amount of philanthropic income. Not all of them fundraiser very actively but some of them have charitable gifts from alumni and parents amounting to millions of pounds a year. Some of those funds go to bursaries of course but a lot will also be spent on enhancements of their already-brilliant facilities like swimming pools, theatre facilities etc. I'd like to see some legislation to require that at least 75% of all philanthropic income must be spent in more "genuinely charitable" ways ie if they want to spend £1m on a new swimming pool they need to put £3m into bursaries or into providing advanced mathematics for the gifted and talented stream at the local comprehensive.

There are advantages to some private schools, but there are significant disadvantages too. I think in these debates, that does get overlooked.

In terms of demographics, I would argue that our nearest private school is more ethinically diverse than the comp. What was the thought about existing in the real word? I would suggest that the private school is more real world in that sense.

These debates seem only to look at private selective schools. Then people are annoyed as they think their children are having a better deal. I doubt they would look at the private school for sn children and feel as aggrieved.

miro what a ridiculous idea! People should have the freedom to give money to whichever cause they wish! The states does not get to choose the most worthy cause. So by the same token I could argue that charitable giving to the gifted stream at the lical comp may be diverted into sn education....

Sorry but I really don't buy the diverse private school line. Those able to afford the fees are a tiny group compared to the population at large - think I read around 7% go private? So even if ethnically mixed it is only made up of children from a relatively small group of wealthy families.

I once worked in an extremely racially mixed workplace, but we were all lawyers. Being educated upper middle class myself I had way more in common with, and socialised with,my work friends from Iraq India and Japan in a way I never did with the English secretaries.

Diversity has many forms...you are concentrating on income but there can be educational background of parents, ethnic mix.
There is not a single child in my DS class at school that is not white English.

It's always funny on here when one of these independent schools vs state school debates takes off in some shape or form with some catalyst or other. It becomes the Women's Institute on here bickering around the cake stands with a plethora of misinformation, misinformed views, claim and counter claim and generally a load of shoulders laden down with various sized chips chirping biased and personalised views. Minifingerz as ever jumps on the bandwagon and round and round in circles the 'debate' goes!

By the way if charitable status is only worth £200 a term then I'd rather it could be cancelled and I'd pay the extra £200 please! With the quid pro quo that the Saturday clubs the school lays on, the use of the sports fields and swimming pool etc etc by local schools and people is cancelled.

What a ridiculous dismissive sexist post with the "women's institute" "bickering" comments

Ridiculous but true.