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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed that private schools have charity funding.

665 replies

Olympiathequeen · 15/12/2016 10:14

They are not charities, they are businesses.

They do little or nothing for the local community.

They benefit by about £750 mil. They part fund bursaries for around half that amount.

Leaving them with a tidy little £300+ million profit at the expense of the taxpayers.

That money is desperately needed for public schools.

WTAF is the government doing?

OP posts:
SAHDthatsall · 21/12/2016 09:25

Minifingerz - from what I have noticed of the stuff offered by local indies to the primary sector etc it is not limited to their better able pupils, both weekly courses and sports facilities on offer etc. It is up to the state schools who they send on such courses I guess.

If it's an extra £200 a term to not have the tax breaks, and therefore not allow the local community/schools to use the swimming pool or the cricket pitches or football pitches or tennis courts etc etc and not have freeloaders on Bursaries then so be it. That would be fine. Grin

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 21/12/2016 09:34

It is possible to think of other children without putting their needs at the same level as your own

Giving back to society and making it better can be done in many ways work, volunteering, sponsoring

But you can pat yourself on the back by sending your children to a failing school just so that you feel better that your children are in with the less fortunate

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 09:36

I have to say my high achieving child would have beenn pretty pissed off if one of his class had been going on about wanting to do chemistry while they were trying to watch Elf........

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 09:39

"But you can pat yourself on the back by sending your children to a failing school just so that you feel better that your children are in with the less fortunate"

Yep. Because that's exactly what I and others are suggesting Hmm Are you using "failing" in it's special Mumsnet meaning? As a synonym for "comprehensive"?

Sixisthemagicnumber · 21/12/2016 10:36

No. neither do I. I just don't think the education system should be designed solely with them in mind.

I agree that the education system should be designed with all children in mind but currently we have some schools focusing their efforts on the borderline C/S students to the detriment of the higher ability students. No child's education should be compromised in order to facilitate the learning of another but it happens all the time. League tables are the main factors causing this issue. It was said yesterday - their isn't a finite resource. But why should it be the most able students that are not helped to reach their full potential due to those finite resources? I don't think morbid acceptable that any student should not be able to reach their maximum potential solely because there isn't enough money in the pot so we will concentrate on those who are struggling to get C's. Not all my children are bright, one will not take any GCSEs, in fact if he could leave school speaking a few words I wouls consider that he has had a fantastic education but just because he is really really struggling that doesn't mean that I should ignore the educational development of my other children.
It is a separate argument from the tax status of private schools. But it does concern me that some people think it is okay for the most able students to drop a grade if it means that less able students can gain a grade. No child's education should need to be sacrificed for the benefit of others.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 10:44

"t is a separate argument from the tax status of private schools. But it does concern me that some people think it is okay for the most able students to drop a grade if it means that less able students can gain a grade. No child's education should need to be sacrificed for the benefit of others"

I take a completely pragmatic approach to this. We are in a world of finite resources. Ideally there would be enough of everything for everybody, but there isn't. So if my child wants As he-and I-are in a much better position to do something about that than most of the kids in his school who will struggle to get the all important Cs. And I am talking about important to the student, not the school. There is practically nothing my ds might want to do that he will be prevented from doing if he has As not As. There are a world of things that another child will be prevented from doing if he gets Ds and not Cs.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 10:47

And no, I am not saying that school's should say that Cs are fine. Incidentally, neither will OFSTED. I am in favour of setting and high expectations and high aspirations. And I am outspoken about this as a parent and a governor.

Sixisthemagicnumber · 21/12/2016 10:56

But because you are in a good position to help your child achieve A* bertrand it doesn't mean that all parents with able children are in that same position. Some parents are reliant on the school to help their child reach their full potential. That's not to say that some parents are uninterested or uninvolved but they might not have the skills or money or whatever else is required to help their child reach their potential. I know that I will be unable to help my
Child much in his GCSE years due to our family circumstances so I will be reliant upon the school.

caroldecker · 21/12/2016 11:02

Of course we should ask schools to do less - why sport, PHSE etc. If you want to spend the resources better, state schools should only concentrate on academic stuff. Eton does more because pupils spend longer there.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 11:31

"But because you are in a good position to help your child achieve A* bertrand it doesn't mean that all parents with able children are in that same position"

I agree. But that's why I say that no doors are closed by As not As. My ds wants As to prove a couple of points- he does not need them for any other reason.

Many parents-I would be prepared to stick my neck out and say more parents-, are not able to help their children from D to C either. So if there are limited resources, that is where they should go.

Sixisthemagicnumber · 21/12/2016 11:48

Maybe doors are not closed at GCSE level but they are at A level for quite a variety of careers. The course my ds in interested in (he may change his mind as he has a few years to go yet) requires a minimum of 1A* and 2As at A level and it isn't at either Oxford or Cambridge. I don't know enough about the transition from GCSE to A level but I imagine the better you do at GCSE the more likely you are to do well at A level ( I'm happy to be corrected). It isn't a course that he could do on Open uni.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 11:54

Absolutely. We're not talking about 6th forms. We're talking about compulsory education.

Sixisthemagicnumber · 21/12/2016 12:00

Education is soon to be compulsory up to the age of 18.

Sixisthemagicnumber · 21/12/2016 12:17

To clarify: education is compulsory until 18 but not sixth form. I am well aware that not everyone studies A levels but not all teenagers study GCSEs either. You do know that most LA have a functional skills college for young people aged 14-16 who are not for whatever reason studying GCSEs. Also pupils at PMLD schools don't usually do any GCSEs. GCSEs are not really any more compulsory than A levels.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 12:32

Students need to be in employment, education or training up to the age of 18. This does not mean in a 6th form.

A levels is only one option. Many of the other options are dependent on Cs at GCSE. As far as I am aware, no option is dependent on A*s at GCSE.

Headofthehive55 · 21/12/2016 14:29

I found that the focus on the less academic did unfortunately permeate into the sixth form thinking.

I think you also feel less confident with subjects you don't do as well in.
Getting an A instead of an A* might not in isolation matter, but, particularly in science and maths indicate more work to be done at A level to get those good grades. It does have a knock on effect - general rule of thumb is that you are likely to get one grade lower than your GCSE grade.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 14:54

I notice that once again, you are focusing on the needs of the most able.

As I say to my ds, if you want A*s you know what you have to do to get them.

Sixisthemagicnumber · 21/12/2016 15:19

But it's just as easy to say 'if you want Cs you have to work for them'. Easier said than done without guidance, support and effective teaching. Some children do need support and teaching regardless of their ability and their parents might not be able to give that.

Headofthehive55 · 21/12/2016 15:21

So you are suggesting that my child should be able to, discover which board she was taking (changed twice throughout GCSE), look up the curriculum, to ensure that it is covered, teach it herself, buy whichever book she might need (they didn't get any from school) and mark her answers herself?
You are asking an awful lot of someone who already is in difficult family circumstances when I may not be able to help very much, if at all at that time.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 15:25

It really really isn't. A D student isn't going to get theimelves to a C without lots of support and help. An A to an A*? Much easier. And less vital anyway.

BertrandRussell · 21/12/2016 15:28

You mean your child doesn't know what board they are doing and doesn't have appropriate revision books and doesn't know where to revise online?

JacquesHammer · 21/12/2016 15:36

This really is all about class isn't it. Keeping the elites away from the plebs

No it really isn't.

All private schools aren't great. All state schools aren't rubbish.

You cannot simply assume that all parents make choices to fit your agenda of all private school parents are elitist

Headofthehive55 · 21/12/2016 16:37

No bertrand. As I say it changed. We were not told. The revision book, for maths, purchased through school, was actually a different board to what she actually sat. It was not what was on the website...why would you think to ask when you had already been told?
She had nine teachers in biology during the course of two years. At one point two teachers were teaching the same chapter. One from the front and one from the back. Only one teacher made it through the GCSE course in her subjects and was there at the end!
To stay on top of that for a 15 year old is quite something. Especially when one has difficult home circumstances - challenging siblings, a very very noisy household where there is no privacy or quiet.

Headofthehive55 · 21/12/2016 16:41

Oh and I helped one if mine do the d to c. It was much easier. Core work and I could understand it, so I could help. Extra classes at school etc. Work sent home.