To be mildly irritated by most tiring job ever?

[brasty]

A friend who is a teacher has been saying how exhausted she is, and that only other teachers would understand. She is not joking. AIBU to be mildly irritated by this? Yes teachers do a hard job, but there are other jobs that are also exhausting.

I'd say r reaching would be well up there in the tiring stakes.
But a question about nursing - I often hear about 12 hour shifts. Why is that? Why aren't they rostered on for 8 hours - surely that would be better for them and the patients?

Mrs Guy.
Have you looked at the pay scales in some schools and for some TAs? Initial pay is poor compared to some jobs . Negotiation can be done but is limited. Not sure where you are, but you don't get to call the shots on tutor groups etc. That's ridiculous and most teaching applications specify this as part of the role. They certainly don't pay you the same/ extra for doing so- it's expected.
I think you've missed my point about the corporate job. If I was getting paid a six figure salary I would expect to be working long hours due to the extra responsibility. It depends on how you cope with it but one the main issues teachers face is an extreme amount of working hours without the reward of a high salary.

Why do you accept that those things need to be done by teachers?
Ridiculous if a person with a PHD in Physics is should patrol a playground at lunchtime, when that job could be done by someone who could never get a teaching qualification, but is perfectly capable of supervising people. ( I do not have a PhD and my subject is not Physics, but the same applies for any well-qualified person in any subject).
Same with form time. Same with 'displays'
In other countries with perfectly good educations systems, teachers are valued and respected as professionals because they teach, they are not just general dogsbodies. In this country teachers only have themselves to blame as they have just passively accepted more and more non-teaching activities, partly because the inept management is also drawn form teachers, when could more effectively be done by people who are good at managing. And inefficient working practices are perpetuated, and teaching becomes less and less a profession.
I hope that more people like Sprinkle come into the job, and realise that they can negotiate (and if you don't know what negotiation is, it is having an adult conversation with the HT about what you want to do and agreeing the terms and payment mutually - rather than running bleating to a union rep to see if you can leave and get a pay-off for stress) and have a good work-life balance, properly remunerated, with teachers' pension and be a positive role model for the children you teach. Luckily, enlightened schools positively welcome older people from other professions who have retrained, as providing diversity and energy that has been woefully lacking in many schools.

It's a shame, MrsGuy that you don't see the value that a knowledge of the pastoral side of things can bring to your teaching, but I guess you have no experience of it.

Mildly amused by the comments about Real World Jobs. My personal experience of a Real World Job in engineering r&d was that it was civilised, supportive, funded properly and safe. Can't say the same about some secondary teaching jobs.

you don't get to call the shots on tutor groups etc. That's ridiculous and most teaching applications specify this as part of the role
You absolutely can. I did. Have you ever tried, or do you just assume because an application says something you cannot ask for something different?
As it happens, the job I do was not advertised. I did some days supply at a school and asked me to join them. They were not the first to do so, other schools also asked me (I am not at all claiming to have super-powers btw - that is the current climate - Sprinkle will be inexactly the same position if she chooses, as will other mature career-changers). I . So I was in a position to shape my own job. As any of you could if you are any good. If not, they the school might be happy to lose you. But if I had applied for a job thru an ad, I would still ask. Why not? They could say no, and you could choose not to apply. Or turn it down if offered. Or accept on the basis that the terms are altered.
Schools are keen to get people so of course they will make concession, both in duties but also on pay. Of course if you just accept without questioning, your conditions will never improve. So ask the question, and you are likely to be pleasantly surprised at how flexible schools can be now. Maybe because teachers are 'leaving in droves'. Elsewhere people have posted about vacancies unfilled, or no applicant for a job. So the climate is definitely favourable for negotiation.

Winter 12 hour shifts can be easier to coordinate and roster since it's just 3 shift changes a day. According to the trust I used to work for it also saves money. It's better in terms of fitting all your hours in a few days so getting more days off. However there are certain areas where 13 hour shifts are not appropriate. I work in mental health and in my trust we do earlies and lates (7.5 hours) and nights are 10 hours. It is possible to do long days but the powers that be frown upon it until they're desperate. Anyone who has ever worked on an acute mental health ward for long shifts will tell you why in the long term it is not healthy.

2 shift changes not 3.

Ah, bleating. Thank you Mrs Guy. I'm afraid there is no negotiating salaries in schools that can expect to have their budgets cut by £900k in the next three years (as those around me will do).
I'm not a teacher.

lol at the lazy assumption that because I choose not to have a tutor group I do not have a knowledge of pastoral things. I, like other people coming into teaching from outside , have a knowledge of lots of things outside teaching that I bring to my teaching for the benefit of the pupils in the class. But reading out a bulletin, putting on a youtube video of BBC news, do a class quiz, checking uniform and planners.... hardly the work of a professional teachers - could be done by perfectly well by a dinner lady to get extra hours.

no negotiating salaries in schools
Just try it. And as to budget cuts - it would be cheaper to pay dinnerladies to do non-teaching other ancillary jobs instead of teachers, and use the good teachers more effectively to concentrate on yer actual teaching.

I disagree about the tutor role actually Mrs - done well it is an important additional layer of pastoral support. An increasingly important one as pastoral staff are being cut from many schools. A good tutor sees the students every day, so can do a quick welfare check whilst ensuring everyone is set for the day. I think that's important.

I'm afraid, with that post, MrsGuy you've just demonstrated that you've no idea what I'm talking about

Fucking hell

Where is the empathy for each other?

There are some all too typical snide remarks from people who have not the first clue what they are talking about .
I love the " well if it's so difficult why don't they leave "
They bloody are leaving ... in droves !
And I would add to those who make this kind of comment ,
Well if it's such an easy job , why don't you give it a whirl ? And can I please observe ?

Boundaries - then no reason why you shouldn't negotiate that as part of your role, if you have spare capacity from teaching. Others have said ( including the OP's friend) that they are over-worked, and so logically should cut some of the load. That is what I have done, and that is one of the areas I choose not to do as I prefer to teach. In the school I work in, other teacher have also opted not to have tutor groups as they have small children and have tutor time and P1 off so that they can drop their own DC at school. But perfectly reasonable if you are not overworked or and you enjoy it to keep doing it. Your Mileage May Vary.

other teacher have also opted not to have tutor groups as they have small children and have tutor time and P1

That's called going part time hardly an unusual state of affairs in teaching.

Mrs Guys point reference teachers teaching and not crowd controlling or carrying out tasks that could be done by a non-teacher makes sense.

I am a business woman. So, for example I would not pay nor expect a chef to wash up - just because that job is in the kitchen.

I do not therefore understand why many tasks a teacher is contracted to do are nothing to do with teaching, and if they were reassigned to a less qualified but perfectly capable individual, who would therefore cost less, said teacher would have more time to teach and therefore offer better value for money in terms of use of their salary.

From a business perspective (I know it's different but perhaps it shouldn't be - after all budgets are tight and it seems many schools struggle to make ends meet in terms of teachers) it just is not a logical way to run things.

I also do not agree that just because it has 'always been that way' makes it correct or the better use of a teachers time, in relation to the form tutor example.

More thinking outside the box required.

Ok so instead of teachers being form tutors you think it would be a good idea to hire nearly 50 random people who fancy working for about half an hour per day trying to do pastoral care for a group of kids who don't know them?

Mrs Guy, please note that I have not said that negotiation is impossible - possible in some schools with better budgets and conditions. Not possible in others- see other posters above.
I enjoy my form time. I wouldn't want to give it up alongside the teaching I do. It enables me to know about the students I teach on a personal level. Being someone who is approachable and communicates with parents is a significant part of the job. Your suggestion re: dinner ladies and how a school works seems somewhat naive.
I guess the question is why should they pay the same salary to a teacher who does that role and a teacher who does not - I don't think you've mentioned how this works in your school. If this isn't taken into account I can imagine other teachers being rightly aggrevied about covering you/ doing more work for the same pay.
You seem to have proved other posters points about teachers and their attitudes to work and school. Certain parts of the role which you are normally expected to do are seen as "below" you.
A lot of us who are highly qualified, see it as an enjoyable part of the job. I wonder if you would change your views if you were applying to a school with fifty applicants for a job, got the job and very much wanted the role? If they refused to negotiate would you still take it? Despite current trends in teaching, some schools have a huge number of applications due to the reputation of the school, location etc.
Unfortunately, some mature career changers come in expecting to set the terms and completely ignore the advice and views of younger and often more experienced colleagues.

Liife, you're looking at from a very different perspective.
If you're a business woman you develop relationships with your clients. You don't see them as some separate entity.
You're right - general management could be better. But a good school/ teacher deals holistically with students and issues in the school instead of being numbers to teach.
And I'm sure that if we adopted that approach many parents would, unsurprisingly, feel this wasn't good enough.

More thinking outside the box required
Definitely.
But unfortunately most school leaders have always been in the box and don't have the imagination to think outside it. Luckily some do, and embrace innovation. And with budgets being squeezed, and vacancies not attracting many applicants, it is the innovative ones who will have the best run schools and the happiest workforce and pupils.
it is ironic that on a thread about teachers moaning about overwork, teachers are castigated by other teachers for negotiating a better workload for the same pay - and resent the fact that some of us choose not to suffer and moan but instead do something to fix it.

I had a friend who couldn't constantly moaned about how hard teaching was, how exhausting it was all the hours she worked etc. Then got to see her switch off for 6 weeks then panic weekend before school started getting up to date and taking about how stressful the job is etc. Have to say it's given me a very tainted view of teaching!

She has never worked in any other profession and apparently the likes of my husband who was works shift work and then is on call 24/7, comes home from work dealing with emails and catching up on work because he is so busy, is not considered to be working as hard.

Sooooo annoying!! Needless to say I am no longer close friends (partially for other reasons, but this was one of her most annoying traits!).

I think Guy has valid points. I resent doing an after school club for 50 minutes when I could be doing my marking and assessment. The same with checking and marking reading diaries. And displays. It's not that I don't enjoy doing them, rather the time spent laminating stuff and backing work is stuff I don't really have time for.

Do you do half-termly assessments, planning, writing schemes of work and marking, Mrs Guy?