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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dad told my son using the N word is not bad.

80 replies

Whathappendexactly · 08/12/2016 09:48

I'm really annoyed. My 74 year DD has told my DS10 it's fine to call people by the N word. He then went on to say he's shocked there are so many of "them" on children's TV. This is over the dinner table! When I said it was totally unacceptable, told my Dad the consequences of using the word for my DS at school, he made out the world has gone mad and that we will all get arrested for being racists using normal words like this, he also told my DS that calling them C ( rhymes with goon not the other one ) is also fine.

Obviously I have had a talk to my DS and DD13 who was present when DS brought up the word.

My Dad is of a different generation. He's old and not that well and enjoys a few hours after school with my DS once a week. It also doubles as child care for me.

In all other ways my DD is a good kind man who would not hurt a fly but I can't put up with this can I?

Do I make other arrangements after school on this one day. Not actually sure what that would be other than stop working this day. After school provision is full.

If DS father hears this word from DS he will get into so much trouble and these weekly visits would stop instantly and I can't see how I could defend my DD to be honest because i'd have to agree.

A bit of back ground. When I was 15, I was asked to see the head teacher at school. I was acused of being racist to a friend who had complained. I had no idea what I had said wrong. In fact I had referred to the shop outside school by the word used by my Dad in thoses days. I had no idea how wrong it was. I had also used some other language earlier to another girl but to this day I have no idea what it was. I certainly didn't feel like I was being racist. The head teacher even remarked he was shocked I was sitting in front of him over such a matter.

To my DD we have all gone "to far" the other way apparently and I'm cross about nothing.

OP posts:
lifetothefull · 08/12/2016 12:49

I agree that the language is racist and that you need to make sure that DCs understand this and the enormous implications of using them. However he is your dad and you love him.
When I was young I had a great aunt who was racist. My mum continued to take me to see her, she listened to her and encouraged her to see the good in the people she was talking about, or pointed out that her complaint could apply to people of any race. I talked with my mum about aunt's attitude as well as the real social issues she was facing. I'm glad DM didn't protect me from her. Instead DM demonstrated tolerence, love and commitment to family.

I would advise using this as a way of discussing issues openly and unfortunately helping dcs to understand racisim is a real thing that has not been defeated.

Footinmouthasusual · 08/12/2016 12:50

jelly it is a generational thing as in the 70s generation there were no sex/race/equality laws.

Laws are passed and attitudes gradually change.

Saying it's a generational thing doesn't excuse someone persisting in this talk or denying people can change.

In my childhood everyone called the corner shop the p shop and no one I know now would.

Footinmouthasusual · 08/12/2016 12:53

Reminds me of Lenny Henry and his talking about being 'our black who we like not like the others'

My DM would say 'he's black but very nice' about her GP. She meant this as a complement to him and it took a lot of explaining to her that it was inappropriate.

Original poster
Whathappendexactly · 08/12/2016 12:54

I do not agree with my father's language or racist thoughts in any way shape or form jelli and I will be very clear on that. It's unacceptable. I've even had to face a few unsavory facts about my Dad reading all of this. I am an ex military member so I do know about being discriminated against for being female and didn't tolerate it for long I can tell you. Your have made a massive assumption about me and you are very wrong.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whathappendexactly · 08/12/2016 12:57

I meant dad thinks "it's gone to far"..... not daughter. She's with me and mature enough to know right from wrong. Sorry for the confusion.

OP posts:
SleepFreeZone · 08/12/2016 13:00

My Dad is hugely racist and pretty much hates everyone, even family at times. Can't stand women, can't stand forriners can't stand black proper, Indian people, Americans, the Chinese, you get my point 🙄 I do let him see the children but I'm aware he has no censor button anymore so I'm always ready to scoop them up and leave if he starts getting inappropriate.

His health is failing so he would never be able to care for the children alone but my mum does babysit occasionally and obviously he is there. My eldest really loves him funnily enough!

BarbarianMum · 08/12/2016 13:17

Sleepfreezone snap. And actually mine can also be lovely and generous and kind too. It can be confusing - then you realise that you can be lovely and generous and kind to things without in any way seeing them as equal to the great white (straight) man.

Boogers · 08/12/2016 13:20

SleepFreeZone my grandma was very racist, proper hateful, spitting racist. I still adored her. She would have rages lasting about 5 minutes where she'd let loose every insult she could think of and slap the chair arm to emphasise her point and then she'd see me, my mother and my grandfather giving 'that look' and she'd stop and carry on being a normal grandma, talking about knitting or baking or getting me to fill the bird bath or root her geraniums. Point I'm trying to make is I learned early on that what my grandma said in her rants wasn't something I agreed with or would ever repeat, but I still loved her in spite of that, if that makes sense? I think your eldest might be the same.

Footinmouthasusual · 08/12/2016 13:25

I suppose and obviously op and anyone else who has posted about racist parents attitudes this shows us what can happen when good people do nothing. They are kind and generous and turn a deaf ear to others who would act further or support more racist acts or behaviour.

Not all Germans could have carried out unspeakable acts in the camps but those sitting at home loving their neighbours abs children were supporting by turning s blind eye.

And coming right down to it if your speaking up saw your children shot or taken to concentration camps would you? Not sure I would.

Scary thought and that's why racism must be challenged at the early stages and I bet your 10 year old will do just that with his grandad op.

LiveLifeWithPassion · 08/12/2016 13:32

If your dad genuinely wouldn't hurt anyone, no matter their background, then let him know how hurt and offended people can be by these words.

Boogers · 08/12/2016 13:34

May I also pick up on a point Lorelei hinted at up thread - I'm saying what I'm saying as a white British woman. Lorelei is saying what they're saying as someone who has been called the words discussed in this thread. That gives a slightly different viewpoint to me saying 'it was what we did when I was growing up', because Lorelei was on the receiving end of what we called the corner shop.

quencher · 08/12/2016 13:40

What your dad said actually makes me feel sick. Sick to think that there will be a black or Asian child on tv and your dad would make derogatory comments about them, based on whether they are worthy of being there because of the colour of their skin.
That could be my child he is fucking complaining and talking about in a derogatory manor.

Lorelei76 · 08/12/2016 14:02

foot - yes, i wish more people called out this type of thing, also sexism, homophobia etc

Boogers - yes I was wondering how many posters had been on the receiving end but I wouldn't make an assumption.

I also wonder what would happen in OP family if any of the father's children had partnered up with a non white. I'm not sure if it's fair to assume the dad doesn't have any non white friends because it's quite possible that he does but still uses those words.

Footinmouthasusual · 08/12/2016 14:13

Fascinating debate and I think brave of you op to post and support the dad you love while hating his words.

Lorelei vital posts as you see the other side and how awful it was for you.

You know what I would bet my house that if the ops dad came across an obviously lost crying foreign child he would help or access help for that child. He would not walk away.

Footinmouthasusual · 08/12/2016 14:18

That's the double standards most of these what I would call arm chair racists have.

My late fil didn't like 'the blacks' Angry but he had a black mate at work who he was very close to.

Crazy and couldn't see it when my dh pointed it out Hmm

DotForShort · 08/12/2016 14:20

Oops, I responded on the other thread, didn't see this one.

Anyway, there can be no mitigating factors to explain away racism. I'm so tired of people trying to justify racist language and beliefs. Let's call it by its name.

StewieGMum · 08/12/2016 14:26

Your father is racist. And I find utterly deplorable that you think there are 'mitigating circumstances ' for racism.

Footinmouthasusual · 08/12/2016 14:30

Has anyone? Who? Not that I read but posters simply exploring the issues and consequences around behaviour like this.

Of course it's racist words. Of course to use these words makes you a racist.

Lorelei76 · 08/12/2016 14:31

didn't see the other thread

in terms of calling it by it's name, I reported a thread for use of the term white trash and nothing happened.

in a previous workplace someone got told "you're a a pushy American so you're bound to think xyz". She was "discouraged" from complaining to HR by her manager. I did call it as I heard it, but I was more established there (she hadn't worked there long enough to have her employment rights) and as she wouldn't complain I wasn't going to go against her wishes.

There's another thread about this??! THe one with the friend's dad at Xmas was quite upsetting tbh. Well, I found it upsetting so I stopped looking at it.

Boogers · 08/12/2016 14:50

I had a big argument with a former workplace (NHS sadly, where I worked as a temp) when the other secretaries referred to one doctor as 'our muslim brother'. There was no context, they never said that or any of the other 'muslim ...' to his face, nor did they do it when anyone else was in the room, but they must have assumed that because I was who I was that I wouldn't say anything. The head secretary was the worst. We had a heated row about what was acceptable in the workplace and I left that day and never went back, telling the agency exactly what happened the day after. They wouldn't have done anything though as it's their income.

Racism is still there, and though it's understandable from my grandma who used that language often, it should still be challenged, and if grandma was alive today and compos mentis (she had dementia when she died) I would like to think I would do exactly that.

Boogers · 08/12/2016 14:56

Stewie the OP knows her father's views are racist and she doesn't like what's said. She's tried to educate her DC to not use those words and understand why they're offensive and hurtful. Many of us on this thread have also used similar words but it's put into context of when we were brought up and what was normal for us. The OP isn't minimising anything and, if anything, this thread has discussed contexts of racist words.

And by the way, only two people on this thread have revealed their ethnicity.

Mumzypopz · 08/12/2016 18:27

Your Father us 75, these words may not be right, but they are historic and we can't erase them from a while generations mind. Of course you should allow him to carry on doing childcare, he is their Grandfather for god sake and probably a very kind Grandfather. Just ensure you have regular chats with your children to re-educate them. My elderly Father is exactly the same, I still love him and will never he able to change him.. ..my children take what he says with a pinch of salt....they live in a different generation to him, they know the words he uses are wrong.

NotYoda · 09/12/2016 19:39

bookeatingboy

Hey! Come over and tell us what happened with the pink-and-blue-cards. Pleeease

SenecaFalls · 09/12/2016 20:03

I reported a thread for use of the term white trash and nothing happened.

I've also objected to the use of this term on MN. It seems that many people don't realize that it's racist against black people as well as white, the implication being "white" trash as opposed to . . . well, just think about it, for heavens' sake.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 09/12/2016 20:08

When my FIL began insinuating along this line to DS1, who was then 3, I told him straight that we live in s world where this is not acceptable and whatever his views are to keep them to firmly himself or he wouldn't be allowed to see the DCs or be allowed in the house. There are some lines that need to be drawn firmly.