Dad told my son using the N word is not bad.

[Whathappendexactly]

I'm really annoyed. My 74 year DD has told my DS10 it's fine to call people by the N word. He then went on to say he's shocked there are so many of "them" on children's TV. This is over the dinner table! When I said it was totally unacceptable, told my Dad the consequences of using the word for my DS at school, he made out the world has gone mad and that we will all get arrested for being racists using normal words like this, he also told my DS that calling them C ( rhymes with goon not the other one ) is also fine.

Obviously I have had a talk to my DS and DD13 who was present when DS brought up the word.

My Dad is of a different generation. He's old and not that well and enjoys a few hours after school with my DS once a week. It also doubles as child care for me.

In all other ways my DD is a good kind man who would not hurt a fly but I can't put up with this can I?

Do I make other arrangements after school on this one day. Not actually sure what that would be other than stop working this day. After school provision is full.

If DS father hears this word from DS he will get into so much trouble and these weekly visits would stop instantly and I can't see how I could defend my DD to be honest because i'd have to agree.

A bit of back ground. When I was 15, I was asked to see the head teacher at school. I was acused of being racist to a friend who had complained. I had no idea what I had said wrong. In fact I had referred to the shop outside school by the word used by my Dad in thoses days. I had no idea how wrong it was. I had also used some other language earlier to another girl but to this day I have no idea what it was. I certainly didn't feel like I was being racist. The head teacher even remarked he was shocked I was sitting in front of him over such a matter.

To my DD we have all gone "to far" the other way apparently and I'm cross about nothing.

Excuse me? Beyonce says it all the time, it's well known! You can't dispute that.

1:28 in her last single

Sorry wrong link

Wooooshhhh!!!

^ the point flying over your head

Whathappened I don't think you're going to change his views, all you can do is say you don't want those words used around your DCs and also explain to your DCs that grandad sometimes uses words that aren't good and they shouldn't use them. They're old enough to probably know the words you mean, but make it clear to them and make it clear to your father not to use those words to your DCs.

Maybe do a bit of discrete digging with your DCs to ask if your father has gone against your wishes, i.e. "did you have an interesting natter with grandad?" "What did you talk about?" "Really, that's interesting. And what did grandad say?" kind of thing. I do it often.

He's not a bad person, he just has different views, but it's up to you to say what is and what isn't acceptable with your children.

I can't agree with the idea that he just has different views. I'm one of the unspeakable word people though, I don't know how many other posters might be also.

Tbh OP I don't know how you can have him around anyone you know and age has nothing to do with it. I have a friend in her 90s who would agree with me that this language means something.

actually just to clarify, I mean Im not white so I would be referred to by the OP's dad as one of those words that would get the thread shut down.

Hi OP,

You might find some of the advice offered on a recent thread I started useful: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2787531-WWYD-Advice-needed-racist-being-inflicted-on-us-over-Christmas

Disclaimer: Obviously your Dad sounds nothing like the particular individual we were seeking help with, but it is still racism causing problems for your family.

It's not a generational thing. Unless he's lived on Mars for the past few decades he MUST know that those words aren't acceptable. Times change - I'll bet there are a hell of a lot of changes he's accepted and moved with over the years, he just chooses to think racist language is not racist - or else doesn't accept that racism exists and therefore it's OK to use these words.

I get that his health isn't good, and that you are reluctant to deprive him of the pleasure of a few hours a week with his GC, but this is something you have to address, and somehow make sure that, whatever views he holds, he mustn't ever use these words in front of your children and - above all - NEVER tell them it's OK to use them. He really needs to understand the dire consequences of your children repeating these words.

Thanks autumnal. I'll take a look.

I'm not back to defend or excuse my DD, but there is mitigation for his language and cherrypiesky made a good point.

The other is 1970s TV. Many of us us may be too young to remember it and it was so peppered with this kind of language and attitude that some people of my Dad's age and generation will have seen it as the norm. It's probably to awful to be shown as repeats by today's standards ( it should never have been shown in the first place).

Again, not making excuses for him but I'm afraid it is an age and generational thing for some because of the media back then.

Don't think it is generational at all; while many racist terms were commonly used in his youth, the n-word was not one of them - not in the UK ayway. He sounds like he is doing this deliberately to be goady and cause mischief with your children.

what "there is mitigation for his language"

The only mitigation I can see is that he's racist. It's easier in a way, at least I know who not to mix with when words like that slip out, but I don't think 1970s TV is much of a reason. We're talking about nearly 50 years ago now and adults do learn as they go along. I don't think my mum knew what being gay was when she arrived in this country but it didn't change the fact that she heard about it, just said "okay cool" and now has gay friends.

my parents are late 70s and know lots of mixed race couples. It really can't be excused as a generational thing.

I am old enough to remember "Love Thy Neighbour" back in the 70s. I am amazed it was shown as this was when attitudes began to change, and I can clearly remember being shocked at the language used and wondered, even then, why it was allowed to be aired.

Totally sympathise with you op. My father in law thinks it's totally acceptable to call them the names you've mentioned.

Totally racist and unacceptable behaviour.

Why on earth does your father think it's ok for him to determine what language is acceptable to people of another race and what's a racial slur. What an ego he has.

Sorry that you have to put up with this I would definitely look for proper child care.

Surely he realised that Till Death us do Part was satire?

And going back to your original post: He then went on to say he's shocked there are so many of "them" on children's TV. - I can't see any way to excuse that as being anything other than racism.

Well done for calling him it on it OP.

I was pondering this kind of terminology the other day watching an episode of Onky Fools and Horses. Uncle Albert character referrring to the "Paki shop" and I was shocked.. I know there was a generation where this kind of language was acceptable and perhaps it showed that back in the 80s people of the generation that character would have been still used it. I honestly don't think it would be written in the same way today though. So many other non offensive ways they could have written that line.

Thanks all for your support. Alfieis noisy... that was a phrase used by my family and then by self when going to the shop. It's why I got into trouble. Still makes me feel awful to this day.

Hi op I was a 70s child and these words were commenly used on tv and in general conversation by all the parents I knew and teachers.

Time has moved on but your dad hasn't.

Now this could be a wonderful opportunity for your ds at 10 so not a baby to help change your dads attitude.

It's also important for kids to know what is wrong and challenge adults even those close to them.

I would tell your dad categorically he cannot use those words in front of your ds as presumably he wouldn't swear either and keep a watching brief.

Op can you explain to your dad where these words originate from and if he's truly not racist he will be disgusted by them and stop using them.

Completely agree with Footinmouth.

I was also born in the 70s and the p word was a local colloquialism for what would now be called the corner shop. I didn't realise when I was growing up just how offensive that word is, and it's one of the words I pick my FIL up on when he tries to justify using it as describing someone from that country. Erm no. It's offensive and I do not want my DCs to ever use it, and that's my stance at the Sunday lunch table, at which point H will swiftly change the subject to something less contentious.

This isnt a generational thing.
I wouldn't protect my DC's from him. They can hear racism without agreeing with it.
I would be worried about your DD's statement that its 'gone too far'. IDK how not insulting people and being decent is going too far. It sounds like she agrees with him. how does she feel about being discriminated against for being female?

Yes and I have to say amongst the teenagers I know including mine racist comments and behaviour are totally frowned upon as is homophobia and sexism.

I honestly feel very hopeful that this generation are truly 'generally' enlightened.

boogers yes have you caught any of the programmes showing clips from 70s shows to today's comedians? Honestly totally shocking. I remember a teacher using the P word and I grew up in inner city brum.

Also I remember my DM railing at job vacancies for 'attractive blond needed as secretary' truly incredible to us now.

I thought "DD thinks it's gone too far" meant the dad, have I got that wrong?

if it's the 13year old daughter....yikes.