to ask about experiences bringing up low tech kids

[rattlingaround75]

This is a hypothetical post - I don't have kids, and don't plan to have any for health reasons. Am a long term member and regular namechanger, am not a newspaper reporter, but I understand if people are wary at threads like this.

Although I don't have kids, I do think in detail about how, if I did, I might want to raise them; one thing is that, at least during primary years, I wouldn't want them to have any of the gadgets that I didn't have growing up in the 80s, and as far as poss only to be exposed to broadcast TV at home (no recorded or catchup - some other people had videos when I was a kid, we didn't), and my own home based internet use would be very limited and mostly in the study. (This all assumes similar standards of living to what my own parents had, including space for a study in the house.)

I feel that schools like Acorn: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/29/the-no-tech-school-where-screens-are-off-limits-even-at-home
with zero screens policy for home and school go slightly too far; some TV is good to have contact with the cultural context, and I am glad I learnt some programming in primary school (computers then felt like a work tool, not an addictive leisure activity - I only knew one kid with games computers and they were really bad at the games).

Do people manage to get nannies who won't put kids to play on tablets and phones and use them in front of them? Older nannies? (I realise all this would be undoable using childminders and is a luxury or SAHP choice!)

I would be a lot more laid back re teens as I think it's really important to be involved in contemporary pop culture at that age, but I would want a kid to have a grounding of how to manage / be/ entertain themselves without the web and of "slower" ways of thinking, and of not expecting the instant gratification of TV on demand. (Really, I think it would be great for the internet to be for adults, like driving is, you'd learn more social skills before you used it, as my own generation did, never having used it as kids, but that's not how it works, sadly.)

I did know one of those families with no TV when I was a kid (which was the 80s equivalent) ; they were very serious people, but I found their house rather romantic and intriguing.

I'd guess that because this is the internet, the families doing this might not be around to talk about it, but maybe people tried and abandoned it because it was too difficult? or have friends who do?

There was nothing intrinsically good about the 80s childhood and it's impossible to recreate it even if you tried.
On demand is the best thing. My ds is 8 and simply doesn't feel the same desire for all the trendy stuff that his friends want/have. Hatchimals, smiggle, all that crap, he doesn't care. His letter to Father Christmas includes things like goalie gloves, a diary with a lock, football cards because he never sees adverts!
He's not a low tech kid but we have some rules. No tv in bed (he can use the kindle to listen to music or a story) He doesn't have an expensive console etc but otherwise I don't restrict access to tv wii or kindle and as a result he self regulates!

most tech these days is so user friendly that you can pick it up within days. I bought an iPad and used it straight out of the box

This isn't what people mean about being tech fluent. Anyone can use an iPad, not anyone can use complex IT systems and programmes. If your child is minded to be good at computing but you haven't allowed them to explore it as a child then you are restricting their potential.

Oh actually DS has an iPod loaded with music that he can listen to. And a CD player for his music practice sessions as well. I agree that technology is a VERY vast spectrum and it is possible to be strict about some bits (like no screens before bed) and more relaxed about others (like Sunday movie afternoons with joy chocolate).

I think the low-tech thing is easily done with under-8s. Just like lots of people have whole-meal-fed toddlers without sweets, but 11 year olds like that are rare. I believe it when they're 16 and still happy with the piano and books alone.

Not that technology prevents kids from reading books and playing music, on the contrary, we've found it helpful.

I agree with Scottish there is a difference in tech and entertainment. It don't have to be all or nothing, you can limit screen time greatly as a toddler and then change tactic as they get older. A love of programming and computer science can also be born out of gaming, that's where my husband and members of my family started.

I knew from very young that my teenager would go into a branch of technology he was one of those kids who was enthralled by cables and wires, having two parents in IT he had plenty of exposure. I blame hours on minecraft and subsequently delving into mods for getting him into programming. At age 15 he is competent in at least 5 languages, into overclocking, has a bedroom full of laptop parts and can fix many pc hardware and operating system issues. With some friends they run an informal tech support team at school, also a Linux and game programming group. At his old secondary school they sometimes used to send him to the network admin team during IT lessons because he had nothing to learn there.

I couldn't imagine forcing him to be tech free growing up, it's his passion in life. My other son uses tech for You Tube and Space Engineers, that's it I'm glad they're introducing programming via Scratch from Primary School. Whilst tablets, phones and Office products are easy to pick up, kids are going to find it much harder to get a foot in the door if they don't even start basic coding until 16, or have solved a few basic laptop issues. Especially for girls where there isn't quite the same tech geek culture.

I think the low-tech thing is easily done with under-8s. Just like lots of people have whole-meal-fed toddlers without sweets, but 11 year olds like that are rare.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I have heard vaguely of other schools using very little tech (rather than none) but never having actually had to look for them, don't know how many there are, if they are mostly private or what.

I would be less bothered about controlling content than many on MN. Some of my earliest memories are watching news, there were always newspapers and magazines like New Scientist lying around; I would be seeking to replicate that and not set out to restrict fact based content except documentaries that were on past bedtime anyway. (However, soaps and other relationship based dramas, a different story, as it makes shouting at everyone, affairs every five minutes, look normal, that was what I picked up from them - harder to restrict as they get to 8+ or so, but if they were at a school that was lower tech, there might not be as much peer pressure to watch Eastenders or whatever it is now.)

But actually, given all the activities kids do these days (as long as they had the energy to, I'd want them to do some), I don't know how they manage to fit in all the screen time as well as homework (or maybe it's different kids...)

We really don't know what shape the future's going to be; I think a kid needs to be educated for possible worlds with a lot of tech but also without, not exclusively one or the other.

If we end up becoming a world without tech, I don't think you standard 80s childhood skills are going to be any benefit at all. A world without tech is going to be one in which we need to know how to hunt, grow crops and scavenge from the wastelands that will surround us.

So OP, could you explain why any television programme that happens to be on that night is better for your child than the DVD of a classic which you have carefully sourced because you know that the story and acting are really, really good?

Or why you teach delayed gratification by letting them watch whatever happens to be on at the time, but not by saying "no, we won't have any television watching this week because grandma is here, but we can record this film if you are interested and watch it next week"???

It all seems very back to front to me. But then I grew up with no telly and lots of books- which is a very similar situation to having recorded television/DVDs.

I do love rattling how you snuck into your last post the supposition that the children using technology are a different group from the children doing their homework.

That's not offensive at all now is it?

If you are envisioning a tech free world I'm assuming that your hypothetical children will be taught wilderness survival skills and hand to hand combat from an early age?

In my 80s childhood we didn't have homework until secondary school. So low tech and no homework was the way of the world. Now it's high tech and lots of homework, sometimes using tech (my kids had "choose an animal and research it on the Internet" as year 1 homework recently).

rattling, why do you keep mentioning watching soaps as some inevitable concomitant of having a telly? What about high quality drama, David Attenborough, ballet, political documentaries, period drama, programmes on archaeology?

Again, who says children can't use technology to support their studies and practical interests? My dn uses his mobile phone to source recipes to cook for the family, dd uses hers to study acting technique.

I find technology very hard to get to grips with, I can just about use my mobile phone to make calls and text - and I use a desk top at home (to Mumsnet of course) - I find it really hard to keep up with developments at work and my heart sinks if I am asked to 'send a photo' to anyone. I can't use sat nav, google maps, digital camera, download radio programmes etc etc - all sorts of developments that would make my life easier; I think I am disadvantaged by not being able to use technology and whilst there is, of course, a balance, I wouldn't want my child to be held back like I am.

Depends on the child. If they are not interested, then fine. But if they are, I think to deny them is not right.

Very few people under 60 get stuck on soaps. TV is beginning to feel a middle aged hobby altogether.

I think the main pitfalls of too much screen time are lack of sleep, inappropriate content and missed real life interactions.

Some kids need fairly strict rules in the evening, some need careful content filtering, some need to be told a birthday party isn't the time for computer games without acknowledging others.

OP, you've got some rather judgey views.
Technology is a normal part of every day life. Of course, as such, it can be misused. As parents, we guide our kids, put in boundaries where needed, etc. I suspect that should things change for you, and you do have children, then you'll laugh at your child free musings.

I grew up with no tv. It was shit. Didn't know what other kids were talking about half the time, and as soon as I was old enough I'd go to my friends at every opertunity to watch their tv.

Gribbie - but the world isn't like that now with one tv show. My children go to their friends houses. Their friends never have tv on just in the day either, or don't have one. They go to friends to play, if the parents just put the tv on what's the point? From our friends tv is a rarely used thing, those that watch use only for odd children's tv when they want them occupied or a film in evening, not just on every day

Really interesting reading OP.

I am currently struggling with the whole tech thing and this thread has made me think a little, although honestly I still haven't come to any suitable/easy conclusion.

We have 3 Children all under 5.

I have thought about getting rid of the TV as nobody watches it anyway (but then am left wondering when they are older will their friends be talking about stuff on TV they have no knowledge of and will therefore feel left out of)

They seem happy going outside/playing with their toys/colouring/crafting/watching yoga on the laptop at the moment, I have no experience as to whether this will change though as they are still only little.

I wonder if it is just our generation who will have the tech quandary as we didn't really grow up with it (I am 40), they only introduced 15 computers at high school so not everyone could use them (I had no interest) and they looked like something off Lost (the big old creamy coloured computers). Will it just be our generation who is trapped in this "do I let them watch more/less tv etc " scenario ?

Sometimes I want to take them away and live on a Fijian island but then would I be holding them back or would they be ok anyway, eldest child is super smart and sociable, would she still be like that anyway ?

It is a constant battle for me, DH is very techy and loves all Apple/Iphone etc tat. I hate it and have this week had to give up my Blackberry because I cannot get certain apps on it that I need - Dojo from school is just one example. I hate the fact I feel like a sheep as ended up with an IPhone so DH can set it up, put the stuff on it I want (as I have no interest).

The whole thing makes me feel very stressed/pissed off. Sorry I have no helpful answer for your hypothetical situation but do wonder if the next generation won't have this issue at all.

Cheshire I think you're right. I don't think you should feel like a sheep for having an iphone - a smart phone is basically an essential tool for most people now - no different to a fridge or something. But years ago people probably agonised about whether a fridge was a step too far in convenience etc. You wouldn't not have a fridge!