to ask about experiences bringing up low tech kids

[rattlingaround75]

This is a hypothetical post - I don't have kids, and don't plan to have any for health reasons. Am a long term member and regular namechanger, am not a newspaper reporter, but I understand if people are wary at threads like this.

Although I don't have kids, I do think in detail about how, if I did, I might want to raise them; one thing is that, at least during primary years, I wouldn't want them to have any of the gadgets that I didn't have growing up in the 80s, and as far as poss only to be exposed to broadcast TV at home (no recorded or catchup - some other people had videos when I was a kid, we didn't), and my own home based internet use would be very limited and mostly in the study. (This all assumes similar standards of living to what my own parents had, including space for a study in the house.)

I feel that schools like Acorn: www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/29/the-no-tech-school-where-screens-are-off-limits-even-at-home
with zero screens policy for home and school go slightly too far; some TV is good to have contact with the cultural context, and I am glad I learnt some programming in primary school (computers then felt like a work tool, not an addictive leisure activity - I only knew one kid with games computers and they were really bad at the games).

Do people manage to get nannies who won't put kids to play on tablets and phones and use them in front of them? Older nannies? (I realise all this would be undoable using childminders and is a luxury or SAHP choice!)

I would be a lot more laid back re teens as I think it's really important to be involved in contemporary pop culture at that age, but I would want a kid to have a grounding of how to manage / be/ entertain themselves without the web and of "slower" ways of thinking, and of not expecting the instant gratification of TV on demand. (Really, I think it would be great for the internet to be for adults, like driving is, you'd learn more social skills before you used it, as my own generation did, never having used it as kids, but that's not how it works, sadly.)

I did know one of those families with no TV when I was a kid (which was the 80s equivalent) ; they were very serious people, but I found their house rather romantic and intriguing.

I'd guess that because this is the internet, the families doing this might not be around to talk about it, but maybe people tried and abandoned it because it was too difficult? or have friends who do?

I wouldn't stop my kids interest in technology any more than I would stop their interest in books, music, art, sports, or playing outside.

Like everything, it just means we step up and be their parent. No phones at the table. No phones in the bedroom at night. An hour or two of Minecraft at the weekend? Fine by me!

And as for on demand tv being instant gratification, that's a load of bollocks. Sorry. It's a great tool to help control what your children are watching.

I'd like us to be lower tech than we are!

Childcare wouldn't be an issue - you just tell the nanny what you want them to do or not do, and most nurseries have no technology or very severely limit it.

Grandparents are the bigger issue in my experience! That and it will only work if you don't want to use technology much yourself. As soon as they start school, a certain amount of peer pressure does come in and you have to pick and choose which of that you give into and which you don't. There's also a big difference between low tech and no tech and how achievable they are too. The thing I am dreading is when they demand phones when they get older and how long I can stave that off for.

I don't buy into the argument that they need lots of exposure to technology at a young age to become technically literate adults - I'm extremely technically literate and became so as an adult. There is a lot of really great educational stuff these days though, plus it's also really nice for them to learn to use to computers for creative purposes in my opinion.

I assume one similar to myself as a kid

I know this is a hypothetical child you're thinking about but please don't hold to this assumption as you'll only set yourself up for disappointment. Children aren't clones of their parents, they have their own personalities and quirks and yours will too. There's a story/meme that's usually used in relation to children with special needs as it's about having certain expectations and then having those expectations completely flipped on their heads, it's about planning get for a trip to Italy but stepping off the plane only to find that you're in Holland. My DC are nothing like me as a kid, I'll see little glimpses which are likely down to nurture/environment/them mimicking my interests because they're small and impressionable but overall they are entirely different to child-me.

I wouldn't stop my kids interest in technology any more than I would stop their interest in books, music, art, sports, or playing outside.

Exactly this! One of my DC is mad for technology and I encourage his interest. He wants to know all about the world and via technology I can show/teach him things he wouldn't otherwise have access to, he has suspected ASD and can't engage with an encyclopaedia entry about the Ancient Egyptians (current obsession) in the same way that he can engage with a video reconstruction of the inside of the pyramids. Then we'll go to museums or galleries with Egyptian exhibits. He wants to know how things work so I download old episodes of How It's Made and we both learn from it. Other DC loves to dance and watches YouTube videos of ballet classes which she then copies, she also goes to RL ballet classes. The technology enhances their real.lofe experiences rather than hindering them.

I think what a PP said about 'managed tech' is spot on. There's nothing intrinsically good about avoiding modern technology, and I think it is great that children are growing up with more knowledge of tech and that it is integrated into the way they learn from an earlier age.

However I also think it is easy to use it as a substitute for a broader range of activities, and that yes there is sometimes value in being 'bored' (boredom being a precursor to using creativity and imagination or engaging in more challenging tasks).

I think Technology exposure is a good think, and will stand them in good stead, as a society we are going to becoming more and more technologically advanced. DD's school is a 'technology leader' in our city, they encourage use of technology for homework, they are learning to code etc.
However I don't see plonking them in front of a tv or ipad for hours watching tv as use of technology, just a distraction/mollifying tool.

I think you would be severely limiting them - there is some AMAZING stuff on demand online.

Look up cosmic kids yoga on You Tube for instance. My nearly 5 year old DS has been doing this for nearly 2 years. It's a great calming activity for the time after dinner but before bed.

He's basically taught himself to read with an ipad too.

But then I am a high tech parent - I limit things based on their suitability, and duration but other than that it's anything goes in our house. DS (nearly 5) has been playing suitable Playstation games with DH for nearly a year (farming simulator). It hasn't done him the slightest bit of damage but it has taught him about business, big numbers (they make millions of dollars farming), ecology etc. etc.

Yes there's more than one way to learn all that stuff but as long as you do a mix that's all that matters.

We have limited. We have no television at home, and they don't use any tablets or computers for watching or playing. Until this year none at all.

Now ds1 is in year two at school he gets one homework a week he needs laptop use, and Dh is a programmer so is teaching him once a week basic coding. It's not worth it until they can read well and basic maths though.

But no apart from actually sitting down and using it for work they don't use tech daily or television etc. We wouldn't have time TBH, and I like them to play with toys, read, art, outside for the free time they do have at their age. As teenagers we shall review

*good thing

You're insane.

Programming is being given the same importance as science and no you can't just pick it up in a couple of hours. My very bright nephews who pick things up quick have this kind of childhood and are already lagging behind in this area( they are ks2). The expectations from schools and employers are going to be huge. My DC already do most of their homework on their own laptop - maths,languages,science all seems to be linked to software programmes. Then there are independent homework pices( essays,research,coding,presentations..... They are expected to be very computer savvy and quick before they even start the homework itself.

I can see absolutely no benefit from this type of childhood,only a lot of negatives.

Why on earth would you want to hinder your kids like this?

GReen - my Dh didn't even start using a computer at all until 13 years ( he lived abroad with 0 electricity even). At 30 he is highly intelligent and excellent at his job as a software programmer.
My son is 5, he doesn't need to be at home on game consoles when he can he outside climbing trees or playing with his trains. He will have time later but the time now is for toys and playing imo.

The expectations from our kids aren't going to just be to learn how to use a few software packages but to build them themselves,in most sectors. Passively using ready made packages is a lot easier than building and creating. It's like being able to read but not write.

I don't buy the argument that kids need to be exposed to tech in order to know how to use it - most tech these days is so user friendly that you can pick it up within days.

I don't buy it either. We don't own any tablets - we just have a laptop, but my DS (4) can use a tablet perfectly well because he sometimes uses one at school and my mum lets him use hers sometimes!

I have noticed though that the kids I teach these days have far fewer IT skills than the kids I taught 10 years ago - they just swipe and tap, but they don't know as much about Word and Windows, for example.

Thinking back to when the Internet was new, everyone was much ruder because they all started on it as adults instead of growing up absorbing 'netiquette'!

GReen - my Dh writes all his programs, he doesn't use pre made packages

Your attitude towards broadcast rather than recorded seems strange to me: it seems like saying they can only read things that are in the paper that day rather than go to a library and carefully select a book because it is said to be good or links in with their particular interests. I'd have thought this approach would be more likely to lead to them watching rubbish and missing some really good and educational stuff.

Not allowing recorded also means that if there is something they really, really want to see, the whole of family life has to be rearranged around that. I'd far rather be in a position to say: no, you can wait for the DVD, we are having dinner now. And the idea of watching TV randomly rather than because you really want to see something doesn't seem like something you should encourage in young children either.

We had the other situation for a while: no TV but a collection of DVDs. That worked well.

Before that we had no TV and no video/DVD. It worked ok, but when dd developed a love of the theatre I was really glad we had stopped: there is so much good acting out there and she would have missed out on such an important learning experience.

Art ditto my dh who designs and writes software to a very high standard.

He however is the first to say that today's kids are going to have a very different experience than us. The gov want all kids coding,not just a few. Coders also need to pick up new languages fast. Our 13 year old is very gifted at this already having been coding and building from 6. He picks up things faster than his dad due to what he has learnt over the years at home and in school.

He does all the trees,sea,reading stuff too and was reading avidly and fluently at 4( as were his siblings). He manages to combine being an avid reader and coder very well. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm very pro-technology (a computing graduate, married to another computing graduate, both made our very good living from computers) but I had a no screens rule for my two when they were under two and then only 30 minutes a day until they were in school and now we limit to 14 hours a week.

I don't really agree with limiting the type of technology they have access to - I think games like minecraft are way better for kids than most TV, and keyboard skills are more important than good handwriting, so I wouldn't know about limiting to broadcast TV - to me that's the worst sort of technology! But I do think it's important to make sure they have plenty of time for other activities that aren't screen based.

Mine love technology and would happily spend all day on it, but they also love books and spend most evenings reading. One is hugely into art and will spend lots of time drawing and painting. They both like exploring woods etc.

I don't think the addicted to screens meme (which you would think mine were if you heard them pestering me for screen time) that gets bandied about about children today necessarily equates to being unable to entertain themselves without screens or being unable to think "slowly". The trick seems to be to spend plenty of time with them on other things. From my perspective, one of the big differences between growing up now and growing up in the 70s/80s is that few kids can just go out and play with friends. The streets are too full of cars and parents aren't as relaxed about kids being out. So they need more parental involvement to help them learn how to do other things. Once they've got the hang of something though, they seem to be raging to be independent.

Dah they know less about Windows because they are focusing on programming instead in school.Picking up Windows or learning to use a tablet is piss easy in comparison.

Greenginger - agree. programming is really hard. Need to be comfortable with a computer/tablet etc, kids will not learn it otherwise. Things like Lego and the code caterpiller thing help but nothing can substitute actual screen time.

Someone mentioned earlier about computers being created by people who 'never' used them. That's wrong. Computers have been in use since before World War 2. They went mainstream in the 70s/80s but weren't affordable to normal folk - however Gates, Jobs et al would have used them at US universities.

Surely, if you want them to have a balanced life as an adult, you need to teach them how to develop balance as a child?

You need tech skills for the world - unless you want to be doing one of a very small set of jobs and even then it is almost impossible not to use tech... e.g. with government systems etc. And giving a child an intuitive understand (not a fumbling level of ability) with tech is as necessary now as reading or writing

you can still teach them about priorities and values - plenty of children growing up today who are bookworms / not strong TV users / like to be outside... generally because that is what is modelled by their parents

It's a fact that kids who pick up programming langusges easily pick up foreign languages maths and science easily too.

GReen - how? If you only have 2 hours a day to play with toys and read and be small, how can you have 2 hours playing and time on screens? Time isn't limitless.

Most people also are not giving their children screen time to learn actual coding with adult next to them teaching, most are stuffed infront of peppa pig or other tv or random games on iPad whilst parents doing something else.

And yes I just restricted screen time,all screen time but they had access to it all.

So limited time,no screens in bedrooms(still don't at 13 except for homework laptops which are put away elsewhere after use) but access to Raspberry Pis,tablets,Macs,diff coding languages etc. Just not hours spent on unproductive games. They do play games and have an Xbox,phones though.

Frankly though I'd rather my DC tinker with screens than be sat in front of passive TV programmes. I'd also rather they watched good quality TV on demand instead of crap for the sake of it.

Art my DC walked home from school at 3.30 and went to bed at 7 when I read to them and they then read themselves to sleep. More than enough time for both outdoor play and screen time.

Minecraft, Scratch and many other programmes,Apps are fab.Mine used to come home have some screen time then play out until tea.