AIBU to expect him to man up before we try to have a baby?

[SWtoSEGirl]

I have been married for almost 2 years, and with my DH for 8 years. Talk over the past year has naturally turned to children and we have just bought our first place together.

DH is really keen to try for a baby now - I'm not quite there yet, but it would really help me if he could engage in the financial repercussions and other responsibilities involved - I try and bring it up regularly, but he just dismisses these things and says he'll 'take care of it all'. This is all very well - at the moment we earn exactly the same amount, but either of us taking time off to care for a child would have a significant financial impact. I've drawn up various budgets to try and plan for the future - but he is so laissez faire about it & this frightens me a lot.

It isn't just this though - I'm sure many people find this, but I take the lion's share of the household chores, washing, cleaning, house admin etc. (we both work equal hours) - and I'm afraid I'll be left looking after two people.

So whilst he says ' he'll take care of it all' - he has done nothing to prove that he would. What would you do in my situation? I've tried talking to him & he says he'll get better, but never does. I don't doubt he'd be a wonderful Dad, so would you just jump in and go for it and trust it would be ok? Or would you insist they help out more and prove themselves before you bring a baby into the equation?

So...I think I am going to try and proceed on the basis of just doing my housework, my washing etc. I may take him out, sit him down and tell him I'm staying on contraception until I feel suitably supported & until we can discuss the future in an adult manner. I hope that isn't too manipulative - but I think it is the only way to forge a positive future.

That doesn't sound manipulative to me. It sounds like straight talking and acting on your words. I hope he can act on his! It's hard to change, especially if this is what he grew up thinking normal. But it isn't, and it's not ok for him to act like this.

Some people just have giant blind spots and need a very strong kick up the arse to open their eyes .. and roll up their sleeves. Unfortunately many of them choose not to :(

There was a great blog someone posted written by a man whose wife eventually left him because what he saw as 'just a cup by the sink' was so, so, so much more than that. Ill try to find it; perhaps it might help your husband actually see what he's doing, which is taking advantage.

That blog came to my mind as well eagle.

She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink

It's a good blog - could have come in handy at the time!

Thanks for the good luck wishes, Elphaba - I admit to some tiny trepidation (and upping the cleaner's hours!) But I do think our child will rate massively higher in DH's mental map than random (to him) vacuuming or emptying out the fridge. This is a man who'd happily spend ages picking co-ordinating wrapping paper and ribbons for my birthday presents or drive an hour out of his way to give someone a lift. He cares about people. I just struggled to connect routine chores to people for him, like that blog does so well. Maybe the OP's man is the same.

The thing is, though Cuppa, the baby will be almost entirely your problem to begin with, especially if you breastfeed. He can care all he likes for the new small person, but his usefulness and measure as a parent will be how he supports you in the early months, and that by definition comes down almost entirely to housework - the basic dishes, endless, ENDLESS laundry, food prep, you seeing to baby while he clears puke/shit/changes bedding as mentioned upthread without prompting or guidance...your hormones will be in no place to ask civilly for a fourth time that he puts a wash on so you don't run out of sleepsuits. Again. Not things a cleaner can cover!

Consider yourself warned!

You say he's he is emotionally supportive

This - I am tired of constantly having to ask for him to do things and it just shows how little he thinks of me in all honesty and a complete lack of respect - is NOT emotional support!

It's called IGNORING how you feel and he's doing it deliberately.

YANBU to feel hesitant about starting a family with someone who you can see - even if you're denying it - isn't pulling his weight in your partnership as it is.

I do, though, think that men get an overall bad rap on here and actually you're the only one who knows what's he's really like. I know just as many women as men who 'forget' to do household chores, refuse to do some things like cook or clean and so on, so I don't think it's always a gendered thing. I also know relationships where one person does the majority of household chores but the other pulls their weight in other areas and that's fine because that's how their relationship works and they're happy with it - but regardless you need to be sure that you're approaching parenthood with the same expectations and ground rules in place. If they're not in place yet without children and you're feeling let down or unsupported then that's not going to get any better - necessarily. You never know, he might change (yes, mumsnetters, people can - even men) but don't gamble a baby's existence on a maybe. Have a frank conversation about it all, and get yourselves on the same page before attempting to start a family.

YABU to use the phrase 'man up' though. It's not about being a man, it's about being a responsible adult and partner.

Elphaba - ok, I am warned!!! First baby so goodness knows I don't have any idea what to expect, except chaos

He better live up to my good opinion!!

You need to be a true partnership before your relationship can withstand the pressure of a baby! So need to sort household tasks/finances etc first. If these areas can't be shared and agreed on I would suggest you are not compatible.

So sorry if that seems harsh as having a baby is the most wonderful blessing. But this site is full of threads of unhappy parents as one parent is unhappy with the share of chores/parenting/time to themselves not to mention couples where they haven't discussed and agreed finances.

If your DP will not discuss these things now it'll be impossible to push a conversation when you're sleep deprived and in charge of a small crying human!

Best of luck

We don't have DC but I'd also join the almost unanimous chorus of urging you to rethink things with this waste of space.

DH and I have always shared the domestic load, and there have been times when he's stepped up above and beyond. I studied for a Masters while working full time - so basically had no free time and spent most of my weekends in the University Library. DH took care of all the housework, laundry, shopping etc while I focused on getting my work. It paid off with a Distinction but even more importantly he never was anything but unfailingly supportive and encouraging and went the extra mile. Can you imagine your DH doing that for you? And if not why not? A few years later, I had cancer. Major surgery and some physical hangovers that have lasted. Again, all the time during treatment he was on top of things at home meaning I didn't have to worry, lift things or have any hassle.

Neither of these are unusual things to do/happen - and if you are hitched to a manchild how will he cope when you need him? That's what marriage ought to be about - being able to be a team and support each other when things are difficult.

At the moment things are straightforward but he's being a disrespectful twat - honestly, I can't see what on earth you are getting out of this relationship. And the whole "his mother was old fashioned" thing - presumably he's learned to use a smartphone and the interweb? Drive a car? These new fangled electrickery switches that have replaced gas lamps? How hard is it?

Go over to the Relationships board and you will see post after post after post (a depressingly long stream of them) by women like you who assumed their pet cockwomble would change and got a nasty shock when they didn't. Don't be one of them.

Ok so here's the thing, his mother's house is a pig sty which suggests he has not learned what a clean tidy home looks like and has probably not been taught how to clean or how to tidy. However, he needs to understand that you need these things in order to be happy. (Some people don't and that's fine) So I think you need to take him out and have a serious - and I mean serious - talk. You need to say to him;

1. I need a clean and tidy home to live in in order to be happy.
2. I need you to be on board with that
3. I need you to learn how to do these things efficiently and without being asked. Not because I am going to nag you because I'm not, but because you care about me and what I need enough to do this for me.
4. If you cannot do this for me that's fine. But I need to know.

Then you will know whether to stay or whether to cut your losses. Good luck.

Oh, and it isn't manipulative to ask another person for what you want. It's what adults do when they care about each other. You do have to accept though, that he has the equal right to say No, I like living in a pigsty doing nothing.

his mothers very similar and her house is extremely unkempt/ dirty

I'm banging my head against the wall here. And what is his FATHERS home like? Is his fathers home unkempt/dirty too?

You obviously have a lot of ingrained sexism about whose job it is to clean and tidy a home. You need to shake that. Seriously. It's 2016.

(Apologies if your husband is totally non-contact with his father and has no idea about the state of his home)

If you have a child, you will be the matriarchal martyr of the family, constantly moaning about how you have to do everything while DH trots away to play gold/meet his friends etc. Secretly you will like your position because you are the one in control while also getting permanent sympathy points from people around.
It's you, who needs to change too. Treat your DH as an equal partner, have an agreement on mutual expectations. Parenthood is a bloody hard work already.

That is a really good point about his father's home Benefits!

as someone who jumped in cos he'd be a wonderful dad (and he is in the playing/fun/loving/financially providing sense, and is now a better dad cos he does more of the gritty shit that goes along side it) sort this now. it is a million times harder to sort after.
set out what chores you will do and what he will do. start doing that now.
Look at your outgoings and whether your income whilst on maternity will cover it.
if not where can you cut back during that time.
make sure you are clear about your expectations around him getting up on the weekends/night feeds/you time etc. having this conversation now, rather than screaming it in a 7month post birth rage at 4am is probably preferable.
and look at what will happen once you come off maternity. can u afford to work? will u get any help with the cost of childcare? do u have family that will help?
a baby is a huge change. men don't seem to realise that. and mine just sort of thought that he worked and i did the baby stuff and it nearly pulled us apart.

You hit it on the head BenefitsQuestions - his father left the family when he was a baby - no contact since. Really no sexism on my part - I'm keen for us to share the roles equally.

Do not - repeat do NOT - assume that a baby will magically transform him into a super hardworking cleaner, financial wizard, or responsible planner. You have your head screwed on right, and everything you are asking him to engage with is really, really sensible. Don't become one of those women who is virtually a sole parent in a marriage. The men who do this aren't 'great guys' who are 'really loving and caring' - they are ARSEHOLES of the highest order who abnegate their responsibilities and ignore the effect it has on their poor, tired, overworked partner. Because women are brought up to people-please and to blame themselves if the house and chores aren't perfect (on top of a job), it's often only years later that they wake up and realise they are being exploited by the very guy who says he loves them.

Stick to your guns. And be prepared to leave if he doesn't shape up. Life doesn't have to be unequal.

What is his mother like as a parent? Did he have any substitute male role model, other than one that fucks off when the chips are down?

Even willing, tidy men like my DP can become U when the exhaustion kicks in, we had some fairly epic rows about who does what.

Also, I'm like a PP's DP, I can easily manage the day to day grind, but don't really have the energy to tackle some of the less urgent stuff. DP will tidy the spare bedroom or clean the bathroom but not realise our toddler is playing up because it's late and he's hungry. Different strengths and weaknesses.

Trying to sort big issues like sharing household chores once the baby is born is a terrible idea. Things like that need to be sorted beforehand, and you need to be able to rely on him. He needs to reliably do his share of the housework for at least a year, without you having to nag. Otherwise you'll just end up with two kids to look after as he'll definitely think you're going to do everything seeing as you're on maternity leave!
As for the finances, I agree with your DH. You either want baby or you don't, a child does cost a lot of money but saying you can't afford your first child sounds like an excuse.

A baby will only make him worse.

OP, I wish I'd have received all this wisdom and advice before we had DS. He is 14 months and I am deeply unhappy with my lazy 'D'H. I have to do the vast majority of the housework, all the 'thinking' work, I'm the only one that worries/thinks about money and what needs doing to the house. I'm up with DS, look after him during the day and have two days 'off' a week where I get to 'relax' (!!) and clean the house, try to get my business started up, organise food shops and meals, etc.

Before DS, it wasn't a big deal that I did so much more than him - I had the time to do it, I wasn't exhausted, I didn't have DS to look after too. It was only after DS was born that it has all hit me. It is so tough trying to do it all and resenting your DH for not pulling their weight.

DH knows we are teetering on the brink of divorce yet he has made only minimal improvements. He did some diy (very unlike him) in the kitchen at the weekend and the tools are still sitting on the side.

I do feel like I have two children to look after.

I would never have married him if I'd known it would be like this.

Please think very hard about what kind of life you want, OP.

His mother is very 'hands off' - difficult to know what she's thinking, never judgemental (which is sometimes great!) - he has never really had another positive parent influence in his life.

I've been thinking about your situation OP, it's been niggling at me.

"DH is really keen to try for a baby now"
Why? Why is he so keen? He's in a relationship where his partner is "sick of constantly having to ask him to do things, nagging etc.", who has "tried reasoning" but has "often been left in tears " - and he wants to introduce a baby in to this mix. Just, why?

Sorry OP, but at some level he sees it as a way to trap you. I doubt if it's a conscious thought, but unconsciously he knows that having a baby will tie you to him and make it less likely you'll dump his lazy arse. You'll be too sleep deprived to have the energy to dump him. As a strategy to shut you up, it's less effort for him to get you pregnant than it is to pull his weight on the household .

So sorry, but he is not going to change.