To ask the school... WTF

[bookeatingboy]

DS came home yesterday with a payment card for his first residential trip next year. The cards were blue and apparently all the girls got pink cards!

Some of the girls asked for blue cards and were told that blue is for the boys and pink for the girls

bangingmyheadoffabrickwall

It isn't just about pink and blue cards.

If these colours didn't have any social meaning it wouldn't be a problem at all. But they do.

Pink for a girl: cute, prinessy, weak, pretty
ink for a boy: gay, sissy, ridiculous weak pathetic unacceptable
If they needed to distinguish girls and boys for easier counting they could have use green and red or whatever colours not associated with gender. School kids are not babies so blue and pink is a ridiculous way of differentiating between the two groups.

Toys are marketed at girls and those toys are predominantly pink. Clothes are pink, cute and frilly whilst boys clothes are tough cool and a bit aggressive (see monster leggings thread). We teach our girls that they must never be aggressive yet boys are celebrated for being tough strong and aggressive.

It's not the cards people are bothered about but the reinforced stereotypical gender roles which results in girls and women being passive objects of the male gaze (and desire). Enough already.

Pink for a girl: cute, prinessy, weak, pretty
ink for a boy: gay, sissy, ridiculous weak pathetic unacceptable

At what point do we address the elephant in the room and say that these views are being perpetuated by the very people trying to eradicate them?

If you rise up against an issue that doesn't exist, can you create the illusion of its existence?

gravy

The people who are trying to eradicate these views tend to be the people who don't name call or label anyone. Prissy wouldn't be in their vocabulary.

The people who do use names, perpetuate them. Because they associate the colour and the gender and the label.

No I think your ideas are just that. Idealistic.

Whenever you start saying things like you know what would be in the vocabulary of an entire demographic of people I do struggle to continue sincerely listening to you.

To clarify; if sissy and prissy were names someone often used to describe others actions and behaviour, they are judging that behaviour and deeming it unsuitable for that persons gender (m), and/or aren't very emotionally intelligent (if they say I'd call a girl prissy too.)

I haven't said there's an idea in an entire demographic of people.

The people who are trying to eradicate these views tend to be the people who don't name call or label anyone. Prissy wouldn't be in their vocabulary

Of course they do. They name call and label people who use the word prissy.

For example you've just labelled an imaginary person as lacking in emotional intelligence if they use the word prissy.

Prissy is not a gender biased word.

"Whenever you start saying things like you know what would be in the vocabulary of an entire demographic of people I do struggle to continue sincerely listening to you."

I don't think anyone is saying that. But surely we can talk about our society in broad brush strokes? Broadly our society still perceives boys and gIrls like that.

Actually, to be fair, "prissy" is a word usually used to describe a fussy, "feminine" man.........And never in a positive way. Female attributes are never positive when applied to men.

BertrandRussell It is not my personal experience that the world is like this. I don't deny your personal experience is different.

I do know that I'll assume the best of people (not make drama out of the colour of payment cards) and build my dc characters and resilience, instead of stressing too much about the external world (over which I have little control).

I do believe the world is changing and evolving in a positive way, but my main focus is to behave in a way that is true to myself and empowering to my dc.

Mystic - to be honest I probably did miss it and I don't disagree with a practical need to wear trousers. Bert it certainly looks like sexism on the face of it.

But you see - I'm still struggling with whether it actually matters. As I don't make the associations that you do. I am open minded to learn more about the thoughts and ideas you all raise because I have grown up with the so called sterotyping as have my friends but it hasn't held any of us back. Its just irrelevant.

I wore a skirt to school for pretty much all of my school days, liked pink things (and mud) and enjoyed maths and computers aswell. I have a career in a highly paid male dominated profession (which more and more women are entering as its actually really family friendly as it turns out and the blokes appreciate that aswell).

My husband does half the housework and child rearing (probably more at times ) and my son is expected to undertake chores which stereotypically are seen as female. So how did my love of pink, enforced school skirt wearing contribute to my household of relative equality? I don't look at any colour or associate any colour with a stereotype in the first place you see. I guess its the same way I don't look at a human being and think of colour - they are just a human being and everyone has every right to be treated equally. Full stop

blissfullyaware 👏👏👏

The question is:

why is it largely socially acceptable for pre-teen girls to wear blue, have blue toys play rooms etc?

And why do pre-teen boys get laughed at and parents mortified if a boy wants to wear pink or have pink stuff?

Because pink is culturally associated with being girly (and weak and prissy and princessy) and boys being 'girly' is the height of social unacceptability. Sadly.

Oh and I say pre-teen because imd girls tend to grow out of the pink phase by age 6-7 but are totally into it between 2-5.

bliss that's great as long as girls that won't want to wear skirts or pink don't end up feeling that they are not a true representation of their sex/gender and boys can feel they are boys even if they like to have pink stuff play with dolls prams etc.

If my child felt that way I'd work on building their resilience and character to protect their feelings, instead of neurotically trying to change the external world to protect their feelings.

"Why do you think they think that?"
"Does that seem rational to you?"
"Do you agree with these views?"

Lots of introspection, lots of consideration.

I think prissy has evolved away from that original meaning.

And absolutely right gravy.

And for what it's worth; I've never been affected by gender assigned colours etc; I've always done my own thing. Hence I didn't think it really was an issue till recently. Because I was immune to it.

But - the school decided to use the coloured cards. And unfortunately, lazily or naively used a well defined stereotype that HAS been an issue for SOME people, and is linked to much bigger wider issues (e.g. Pay gaps, domestic violence etc) - a school shouldn't really be perpetuating the stereotype.

Bliss I'm glad you don't see it and nothing has held you back.

But please look around, and open your eyes to what is happening at the moment. We are going backwards. I grew up in the 80s and 90 and it was drilled into me I could be whatever I wanted. I sometimes wore a skirt to school or sometimes trousers. Some people had before me identified the inequalities and made waves to change things. To make my life as woman equal in opportunities and fairness as a man.

Up until a few years ago I thought the job was done in the UK. But I've come to realise that we are regressing, you and gravy may be aware enough to support your children and build strength of character. But not every body is. Through media influences especially adverts children are being conditioned into believing boy are and do xxx girls are and do xxx. Which are just stereotypes, and usually pretty limiting ones.

In 'living with the dominator' of the freedom programme, an issue with pink is listed as a characteristic trait of one of the abuser profiles.

I honestly feel like you're holding them up to too high a standard.

I think it is almost crippling them that they can't even do a colour-coded payment card without being pulled up and judged as symbolically supporting such terrible issues as domestic violence.

I just think it's too much of a leap. While it's interesting to debate to this extent, especially on matters that are obviously close to your heart and have interested you enough to study to this level, I think it is impractical and unreasonable to expect the school to take on this crusade alongside everything else they are expected to be doing. I just don't think the colour of payment cards needs to take priority.

I see how this thread goes, and you're likely going to want to come back and tell me that I'm wrong because of XY and Z. The fact of the matter is neither of us is wrong. You've gone OTT on the gender stereotypes fear mongering, I've gone OTT on the 'hey chill man' approach...

Tomorrow babies will be born and people will die. Beautiful things will happen and the terrible atrocities will happen. The world will keep turning. So I'm going to bow out of this thread, but nothing I have read here has convinced me that OP would be in any way reasonable to make a big noise about the colour of a piece of paper.

I will keep checking back with interest to see what OP decides to do and how the school responds if they do take it up with them.

Last thing I promise!

MysticTwat I see you're genuine concern I would advise (as kindly and non condescendingly as possible) you to look through history and see that the pendulum has to swing both ways a few times before it finally settles in the middle.

gravy And I'd advise you to look through history and look to see, who starts a pendulum swinging.

Maybe they had some old card laying around but not enough of any one colour? Who knows? But can't see it matters

This thread is like ground hog day.

MysticTwat of course it is the oppressed. Who else would it be?

I was referring to the fact that you feel like there is a regression happening, using it to illustrate that it is very normal. To encourage anyone and everyone striving for the balance to take heart. That it doesn't mean that the battle is lost, it just means that we're going through the next stage towards the final destination of a equality.

I don't believe we need to go around throwing tantrums about pieces of paper to get to that final destination. In a lot of ways it only gives ammunition to anti feminist to label feminists as a little bit