To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high

[jdoe8]

Where will they all live? What jobs will they all do? I know it may help GDP, but that is irrelevant as GDP per head is the important thing.

It does seem to be race to the bottom with more part time work , uber type work and the country is borrowing more and more and the national debt is 35k per head now.

This site is interesting fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/

"EU immigration contributes to financial pressure on the NHS, but its annual impact is small compared to other factors. Whether EU immigrants pay enough into the public finances overall to cover their costs is difficult to say, and researchers give different answers. However, it does appear that they make more of a net contribution than other groups. The UK doesn’t claim back as much as it could of the cost of treating Europeans who come here for a shorter period as visitors or to live as pensioners, which is mostly down to the NHS not asking for money it is due."

Large numbers of keen immigrants is a sign of a a healthy economy, by and large

Isn't it because the pound was high against the euro and the wages are higher. So an east European person can send back a lot more money for the same job than they can earn at home.

At least we aren't being told it's because the incomers admire the British way of life which is what was spun for decades. They are here for the money and probably the free medical care and education helps too - where else would you get that I wonder?

Despite claims to the contrary this is relatively skilled but also very hard work; and often takes place in areas with low unemployment

On your bike - as Norman Tebbit would say,..

But that's not suitable for many people as it's seasonal work and how do you fit that around your family?

Is it because the wages for fruit picking are very low (but relatively high to someone from eastern Europe) plus British people would have their benefits cut if they worked and how long would it take to get your benefit reinstated when the fruit season was over?

British people picked fruit in the past when it was cash in hand and easy to pick up or drop. Not so now.

Another problem with care work is the need to pass a DBS check (9.2 million British people have a criminal record)

So instead we hire people who can't be reliably checked. Genius.

In any case these figures are the ones our government already 'control' so nothing to do with Brexit or not...

So all of you that voted for Brexit... all it will do... when it happens is royally fuck over the country, knacker our economy and threaten the peace and stability which we have so complacently thrown away. Well done!

Is it because the wages for fruit picking are very low

Minimum wage....

But there are companies who exploit foreign workers.

plus British people would have their benefits cut if they worked and how long would it take to get your benefit reinstated when the fruit season was over

And if you were on benefits in a Northern city, should you be forced to move to East Anglia to pick crops in the picking season?

and probably the free medical care and education helps too - where else would you get that I wonder?

Many other European countries?

Really? I don't know so am interested.
I thought France had a combined private/ free health service (which is supposedly at collapsing point).

Miss Margie
Immigrants are now increasingly preferring other EU countries like Germany as wages are better and they get the same free healthcare and education as the local workers (part of single market rights).

I would be interested to know how those wanting to reduce the level of immigration plan to deal with our aging population, too. It really is a massive, massive problem for public services, and it's growing. Yet it doesn't get anywhere near the same kind of public awareness that immigration does.

all of you that voted for Brexit... all it will do... when it happens is royally fuck over the country, knacker our economy

That'll bring immigration down. Job done!

That'll bring immigration down. Job done
The drop in the pound post Brexit will have the same effect.

Really? I don't know so am interested.
I thought France had a combined private/ free health service (which is supposedly at collapsing point).

It varies by country, but generally, European countries have some form of state-funded healthcare system. (I would take any reports that a healthcare system is 'at collapsing point' with a pinch of salt.) This is how it works in other European countries: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country#Europe

Will they all work?

Will they all pay taxes?

Will they be contributing in general?

That's what I'm more interested in. Not just because they're immigrants.

I think the issue is cuts. Cuts to NHS. Cuts to education. Cuts to services.

Another problem with care work is the need to pass a DBS check (9.2 million British people have a criminal record)

And a great many of those convictions are for minor offences that wouldn't be relevant to care work. But people are embarrassed to have them revealed.

We should beef up our criminal record 'weeding' and deletion procedures.

I don't see that hiring people from abroad who may have moved around and left "a past" behind is automatically preferable.

Doinitfine

They use ECRIS (European Criminal Records Information System) as part of the DBS check,, funded by the EU, which links up all of the databases

The ageing population has other problems - tiny houses in Britain mean you cannot have elderly rellie move in. People working until they are 70 mean they are not there to care for rellies.

But an expectation that tax payers will pay for the 24 hour care of someone for 20 years is a bit of a tall order. Carers is just one aspect. Of course if the pay was doubled that might solve it. So I think just the rich will have care in years to come.

Two of my children married people from outside the EU and had been married for some time before they returned here.
Both spouses are experienced professionals in jobs that cannot recruit enough people here. Think medicine, education.
It was quite complicated to enter the country.
In one case the British spouse had to return here and get a job before spouse was allowed entry despite considerable savings.
Both had to resit their exams at their own expense before they could work here.
Now I'm not at all complaining about this just pointing out that it really wasn't as easy as some may think.

I do think that discussions around immigration are valid, but to put things into perspective:
From the ONS website:
There were about 530,000 deaths registered in England in Wales in 2015.
The birth rate was higher than this, so even without immigration the population would still be increasing, but the total fertility rate (children per woman) is low at 1.82.
Without any immigration the proportion of working age people to retired people would be steadily decreasing - especially as the baby boomers are now mostly retired, and this will continue as the 1960s baby boomers start retiring in 15 to 20 years time.
Completely unlimited immigration is not sustainable, but neither is an increasingly aging population with declining birth rates.

Assuming 40hr per week - the minimum wage in Britain is €1646 EUROS.
Eastern European countries range around €300 - €400 per month.
There is obviously a massive pull factor to Britain at our minimum wage levels. Particularly if working and sending money home. The cost of living in the home countries is a factor of the same less. Work for five years in Britain on minimum wage and earn the equivalent of twenty years wages back home. Its a no brainier.

The very first response to this thread is exactly why Brexit happened and Trump got in. If you refuse to engage with anyone who raises any legitimate concern about the numbers of people who are coming here when there is no infrastructure in place for accommodate this, then Brexit and Trump is what you get.

Slow. Hand. Clap.

Oh the old "its not the fault of the assholes who actually voted for Trump/Brexit, its the fault of those who don't want to engage with their insanity"

Nice try but no, thats not how it works.

Nice try but no, thats not how it works.

You can say that all you want but it doesn't make it true. And I say that as a staunch Trump hating lefty remainer.

There was nothing xenophobic in the OP, but you jumped in with a sarky comment and questioned where they got their (actually fairly well known i thought) figures from. Adding nothing to the discussion. Well done.

*Assuming 40hr per week - the minimum wage in Britain is €1646 EUROS.
Eastern European countries range around €300 - €400 per month.
There is obviously a massive pull factor to Britain at our minimum wage levels. *

But if you can earn more now in Germany/Denmark/Netherlands why would an experience E European veg picker come to or stay in UK? This will be the problem going forwards