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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high

932 replies

jdoe8 · 01/12/2016 10:04

Where will they all live? What jobs will they all do? I know it may help GDP, but that is irrelevant as GDP per head is the important thing.

It does seem to be race to the bottom with more part time work , uber type work and the country is borrowing more and more and the national debt is 35k per head now.

OP posts:
Sobachka · 04/12/2016 09:52

I don't think most new young immigrants want or need social housing particularly - they come here to work very hard and are happy to sleep 4 a room (or the awful beds in sheds in my borough) or if necessary on the streets

Shock
WrongTrouser · 04/12/2016 09:52

There are over 65 MILLION people in Britain. That net migration figure gives us a population increase of less than 0.5%Hmm

I'm not quite sure what point being made here is. If people are discussing the effects of immigration from FOM within the EU plus controlled immigration from the rest of the world, why does stating "it is less than 0.5% population increase" worthy of a sceptical face? Is 0.5% a low figure or a high figure?

Depends on your point of view, I suppose, and on whether you are part of the population who benefits (cheap staff, able to cut pay and conditions, increased demand for your btl etc) but don't live in areas where they feel the effects of over-stretched resources, or the part of the population who experience the downsides.

I do find it interesting how whether we talk about the effect of policies on the country as a whole or individuals seems to depend on who will be benefitting or having their lives made worse. So sometimes we talk about what's best for the economy, when although this may benefit some, it will not benefit all.

Eg increasing unskilled immigration - benefits for wealthy, problems for less well off, so we talk about "what's best for the economy" even though, as evidenced by the increasing inequality over the last few decades, growth in the economy does not benefit all, in fact possibly the reverse.

Other policies which would be to the detriment (financially anyway, I think we would all benefit in the end from a more equal society) of the most wealthy - higher top rate taxes, attempts to control house prices etc - we just talk about the effects on individuals and then don't put in place the policies which would benefit the country as a whole.

Manumission · 04/12/2016 12:35

I'm not sure the annual 0.5% figures is particularly useful.

The fact that the UK population has increased from approx 60m to approx 65m in the past twenty years is easier to get a handle on. I don't see how anyone can argue that there isn't a need for a LOT of extra infrastructure and housing when they consider that increase.

MissMargie · 04/12/2016 12:38

I thought the poster was saying that it was a small increase (0.5%). But this is every year so I don't agree with that view.

Someone pointed out it is like adding another large town or city each year - pop of Reading 318,000.

Manumission · 04/12/2016 12:42

Someone pointed out it is like adding another large town or city each year - pop of Reading 318,000.

Every year. It stacks up.

I find the relaxed "newcomers don't use much space/housing/services" attitude of some quite disturbing. Of course people need housing and services.

Manumission · 04/12/2016 12:45

I thought the poster was saying that it was a small increase (0.5%)

I'm taking a wild guess that that poster wasn't a demographer, actuary or statistician marg Grin

Twogoats · 04/12/2016 13:21

Good point enormoustiger

I'm from a working class area with a huge amount of recent immigration. I don't live there anymore, but I've seen the overnight effects, and the locals aren't happy. If you held a vote on immigration there, 95% would want an immediate stop to immigration.

Now, I don't want immigration to stop, but I am a huge believer in democracy. Therefore, I will go with what the majority wants (within reason). Therefore, If we voted to halt immigration, then I would support it.

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 13:44

Firstly, if we're going to talk honestly then let's state the bald truth.

The truth is that 650,000 new people moved to UK, replacing roughly half of our own who presumably mostly died, because only 49k Brits are recorded as having left GB - giving us the 335,000 number.

So 335k overseas persons have replaced Brits but more have been added - approx 315,000 more.

If you're talking volume, then it's 335k. If you're talking replacement of the English & British, then it's 650,000.

"Total immigration to Britain worldwide also reached its highest recorded level at 650,000, up 11,000 on the year before."

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 13:48

My husband works in construction and when I very nearly miscarried IVF twins in Feb and he had to come to hospital for the scan to see if I had or not, his boss said 'If you walk out of that door there'll be a Romanian in your job come Monday'. He did and there was

I am so sorry to read this, Bill. The work thing is in fact is a fine example of the globalist creed - get them in cheap, and everyone's interchangeable.

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 13:54

Big issue sellers are self employed and pay tax on their earnings.

They are self-employed but do not pay tax. In fact, becoming a Big Issue seller is the gateway to many benefits for those fro overseas. Not sure what the position is for British born.

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 13:57

If you are self employed but do not earn much that passports your whole family in to a raft of benefits from housing benefit to tax credits which you would not get if you weren't self employed

EnormousTiger - you are quite right.

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 14:15

Refugees or migrants are given no greater rights to housing than the indigenous population. Actually now with most councils applying residency tests they have less entitlement than people who lived in the area for so many years

Justice the govt link you posted is only a Guidance document. In my town the civic centre will be demolished to make way for a 5 storey block of flats and a few houses. I and my neighbours can bet your bottom dollar this accommodation will go to overseas people, whether they have a residency link to the town or not. They may well have been here for 4 yrs or so living in a private rental, HB-supported, zero CTax, etc but there are British born on the waiting list who will not get a look-in. We've seen in happen in three previous building projects nearby. The Council will let to a token few English just to stop complaints.

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 14:26

The real problems for everyone in housing are caused by sell off of social housing

I agree this stock should never have been sold off. My friend who had lived in council flats since her daughter was 5 was able to by her two-storey flat in Chiswick for £32,000 in 1991. She sold it in 2014 for £310k. Mind you, she had paid rent for 40 yrs. It's those tenants who bought after a very short period of time that should never hv been allowed.

Temporaryname137 · 04/12/2016 14:28

One question I would ask - does anyone believe the official figures? Between the government's interest in massaging them and the number of people who overstay or even arrive illegally, how accurate are they? I live in west London, and I am very surprised if I have an English waiter or maître d/taxi driver/shop assistant/hairdresser/doctor/mw. I volunteer at a school and not only almost all the children but also all the staff were born overseas. I suspect the numbers are far higher than the official stats.

Matador · 04/12/2016 14:30

replacing roughly half of our own who presumably mostly died, because only 49k Brits are recorded as having left GB - giving us the 335,000 number.

None of the multiple times I've moved away from the UK have I ever notified anyone about it. The UK doesn't have a system that necessitates registering where you live.

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 14:31

You can tell where childrens parents come from

I can. Cant you, why not?

formerbabe · 04/12/2016 14:34

I live in west London, and I am very surprised if I have an English waiter or maître d/taxi driver/shop assistant/hairdresser/doctor/mw

The other day I was in my local shopping centre standing next to two big, burly looking builders...I nearly passed out in shock to hear them speaking English with London accents!

Temporaryname137 · 04/12/2016 14:38

I know - I did actually have that rarest of beasts, an English Addison Lee driver, the other day - I felt the same!

Whether you are pro all immigration, pro reasonable immigration or anti immigration, it would be good to have actual figures, and I'm pretty sure we don't have a clue!

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 04/12/2016 14:39

So why is the selling off still going on?

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 14:43

I think all humans cleave to their 'own kind'. In this I include all British-born persons of parents who were not.

Manumission · 04/12/2016 14:43

Selling off?

formerbabe · 04/12/2016 14:47

One of my friends is an immigrant and she often says she believes there's too much immigration in the UK and if it was happening in her home country, that people would be seriously angry about it!

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 04/12/2016 14:50

Council flats selling to the tenants? It still goes on, doesn't it?

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 14:53

Matador said: None of the multiple times I've moved away from the UK have I ever notified anyone about it

These are the 49,000 who permanently relocated overseas, presumably, which means HMRC was notified.

From the Independent: "In the 12 months running up to June, 189,000 EU citizens migrated to Britain along with 196,000 non-EU citizens, while 49,000 British citizens left."

Also Exit checks were introduced last year:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/exit-checks-on-passengers-leaving-the-uk/exit-checks-fact-sheet

SouthallGirl · 04/12/2016 14:54

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe - I don't know. My friend bought hers in 1991.