To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high

[jdoe8]

Where will they all live? What jobs will they all do? I know it may help GDP, but that is irrelevant as GDP per head is the important thing.

It does seem to be race to the bottom with more part time work , uber type work and the country is borrowing more and more and the national debt is 35k per head now.

Sobachka - Then Friday's been a good day!

I know because at one time, if I was running late for work, I could jump into my car, drive down the A4 and get to work on time in 15 minutes. Now the same route takes me 35 mins.

Tell me about it.

I found the article and information provided to be a typical example of poor journalism. No mention of non eu immigration, no mention of birth or death statistics.

There's nothing stopping the UK remaining competitive in the global market as well as increasing public spending. It just takes good management.

sure there is. On a lot of manufactured goods, we simply can't compete on price. We would have to pay people much less than minimum wage. Throw on top of that taxes, pension contributions etc and those costs skyrocket, and the wages are too low to live on. Enter the in work benefits.

The government could help by helping to reduce the cost of living, but they are hell bent on doing the opposite.

Purple I agree.

as for Southall spot on every time!

That is what you want? My parents were refugees to this country years ago, genuine stateless refugees. Too many of the people coming in now imo have no right to even be here or expect housing to be built specially for them, because they have not contributed a penny and yet expect everything to be laid on for them.

this is her point, her parents WORKED and didn't get handouts/benefits/instant housing.

no ones saying about turning away genuine refugees. GENUINE.

Refugees aren't really the issue despite what the media want us to believe. The UK has taken in tiny numbers of Syrians especially when compared with the number of Eastern Europeans who have emigrated here in recent years.

I agree with you OP, sorry have not read the whole thread, and I'm sure you've had a kicking from some. If every one of those people coming here had a job to go to, were in good health, able to support themselves financially, etc etc, then fine, but I don't think that's the case. I don't get why it's so terrible to contemplate the same system as used in Australia/NZ/Canada etc ... have been through that process when moving to NZ, and while it was long, expensive and intrusive, we did not feel it was unfair in any way.

I haven't read the whole thread. Just came to say to OP that in my field of work you can't not hire from non British pool because we will simply loose all the edge we have. Not only hire, we need to keep them here. To keep the edge. This world is changing. We need to adopt or face loosing our lead in the world. Which one do you want?

in my field of work you can't not hire from non British pool because we will simply loose all the edge we have. Not only hire, we need to keep them here. To keep the edge. This world is changing. We need to adopt or face loosing our lead in the world. Which one do you want?

No one is actually against all immigration. We could still let in people we need, without having uncontrolled numbers arriving.

formerbabe
I think the best bet would be to find where all the money is going that we pay in the form of those fucking high taxes. And why do the government haven't made sure that my taxes in this country could somehow keep the edge for us in the form of British workers.
I agree with the point that we are an island nation but then we have just voted to give up rights on the lands of a continent and still want to keep the economy going by trusting the governments who have just eaten up all the money of taxes while letting the really culprits get away. Austerity cuts meant we have less school places and public services and that is causing even more resentment towards the foreign workers.
To be absolutely fair, I would much rather work alongside a competent and capable foreign worker than a less capable British national. It is not good for anyone, let alone my work.

Valentine2

You're a little vague on detail, yet adamant that in your field the only way not to lose a lead we have is to import people.

I don't doubt your word for a moment, but I am very curious to know how and why this has arisen. I'd like to know, for example why EU freedom of movement (if that's what you say is essential for us not to lose our lead) has been instrumental in creating a leading position for the UK.

Raise income tax to 60%? What planet are you on, anonymous user person?! I already pay some tax at that rate. If you raised it further, there would be no incentive for me to do my job. Why would I work the v long hours I do for less money? So yes, I would leave - and take all my tax with me, sorry.

And we are not Australia or NZ as we are far more connected to the world than they are. For example, the free movement of labour across EU means that UK is really in the lead and will stay so if the free movement is allowed.its just the nature of work that no one wants the hassle of visa delays and paper work.

wasonthelist
Sorry I can't announce my field of work here as I have posted so much in the last year or so that I might as well publish my CV here.
But I can try and explain a bit: so far, this field has an edge as UK companies are able to pick the best that EU has to offer (and a great number of them are Eastern Europeans so they don't come here to do the labour jobs) WITHOUT the hindrance of visa processing etc that the talent from USA/Asia/Africa faces. This talented workforce wants o come here for the same reason: if they get the job, all they have to do is pack a bag and come here using just the same passport that they have, nothing else. Having that security is key in my work. Besides, if we don't take them here, the next destination is either France/Germany (and no, language is not that big an issue as we in Britain would consider it sometimes) or USA. That means we will loose workforce based on two reasons: one, they would either not want to go through the visa hassle etc so would go to EU countries. If they would want to go to the hassle, they would have far bigger opportunities in USA also wouldn't really prefer UK.
I will have to leave UK if free movement goes. There is no way my work or future business plan will survive I think.

Overall it's such a difficult question. Immigration is great - most migrants contribute in every way from paying taxes to new restaurants, expanding the culture etc.

BUT the country is uncomfortably full for the current infrastructure. I get the tube at 7am and go home at about 8pm; it's always rammed whatever time I try to get on it. Even a few years ago, anything before about 7.45 was quiet. I am typing this on a train that I had to fight to get on - I've paid £25 to be treated like a cow! Journeys that used to take 15 mins by car up North where my family are now take 30-60 mins. It took 7 hours to drive up there the other weekend, but we've given up on the train because it's so hard when it's packed even in first class and there's no room for the baby or the buggy.

I am worried about where DD will go to school; I had to wait 2 weeks for a GP appointment recently...

So until we build more roads and railways and schools etc, we can't have that number of people pouring in. It's untenable. BUT the countryside and green spaces are the nicest bits of Britain - and it's only a small island. Carpet it all over with affordable housing estates and new 8 lane motorways and it won't be anywhere near as nice as it is now. The whole thing makes me very sad and conflicted!

Chilipepper, manufacturing accounts for something like ten percent of our GDP. Services, on the other hand - approximately eighty percent.

Formerbabe, I agree that the pressing issue is uncontrolled immigration.

Temporary, maybe User was joking?

Oh well it's too late now, I've already saddled up my highest horse!!

I've only glanced through some of the replies, but wanted to post since it something I feel strongly about.

That number of new additions, not from the UK (or other mainly English speaking countries like US, Canada, Ireland, Aussie, NZ etc), over time will lead to huge cultural changes. Of course we can't predict the future, but my fear is that it may be overwhelmingly negative.

Of course, on the other hand, us English have an appalling history of violence, empire building, invading other countries, etc. (we're not alone in that!) ... so it would be no surprise that many of the non-EU migrants are from places we invaded in the first place.

There is a relationship between culture and economy.

I hope for the best but fear for the worst.

Valentine2
Thanks - that's all very interesting - I like to get a perspective. The outfit I work for has been expanding and drawing in highly skilled workers from all over Europe, but even before the recent vote, our expansion was much more concentrated in Ireland for a variety of reasons. Thankfully lack of Free Movement wouldn't threaten my job (at least not directly) sorry it threatens yours.

Temporaryname137
I think you make some excellent points. Quite a few posters have said we need free movement and indeed an influx of people in order to sustain our economy and our pensions.

That may all be true - but as you point out it doesn't say anything about the effects of sheer numbers of people - as the OP pointed out, all these people need places to live and will need transport to work and leisure and medical facilities - although they are calculated to be net contributors, we don't get their contributions for "free" there is a cost to the environment and quality of life.

Taxes will need to rise significantly within 15ys as the baby boom demographic reaches state pension age. The can has been kicked down the road by increasing the retirement age, it can only continue for so long.
It is better to increase taxation now, invest it in a productive economy to allow the country to support the ageing population.
Short term pain should ultimately lead to long term gain.
This system of printing money to buy debt is broken, services can only be provided by taxation. Printing money by its essence devalues it and neuters growth.

Taxes will need to rise significantly within 15ys as the baby boom demographic reaches state pension age

A lot of them are already well past state pension age.

Besides, they overwhelmingly hold most of the money in this country. We should cut off benefits for elderly people who don't need it, rather than taxing younger people who are overwhelmingly much, much poorer.

Valentine, it's nothing to do with jobs. Freedom of movement is contributing to the overpopulation crisis in this country.

Hmm, on the one hand that makes sense, bill. On the other, you're effectively saying to someone like my DF, who's worked nonstop for the last 60 years, "thanks for your contributions, you're not getting anything back for them though. Do keep sending the IR those cheques twice a year, old boy!" Which is a bit of a slap in the face.

That being said, DF tried to turn down the winter fuel allowance and was told it wasn't possible because it would cost more in admin to work out who should get it and who shouldn't. How can that be right?!

Sorry Valentine, that was meant to be wasonthelist.