School and PE

[Gorja]

DD1 is year 8. She has a badly infected toe that she is on antibiotics for and looks like she may have to have the nail removed.
She was due to do PE today.
I wrote a note this morning explaining she could do PE and set off happily to work. When I got Hime she told me she had given her teacher the nite and been told she had to do PE as it would be ok as it was just handball.
She had been made to wear spare PE kit as I hadn't sent hers with her - as I had written a note so didn't expect her to be doing PE.
She had to wear trainers that were too small for her as that is all they had.
This evening she is in a huge amount of pain and very tearful.
Would I be unreasonable to contact the school and tell them they are not to make her do PE if she has a note?
I do understand that some kids avoid PE and I do know she's not a huge fan of it and probably doesn't try very hard in it.
But surely if as a parent I write a note as she is in pain the school should respect my judgement and not make her participate?
She's my eldest so not sure if I'm over reacting but she really is in a lot of pain tonight which she wouldn't be had she not had to do PE.

HermioneJeanGranger: Yes, she was perfectly physically capable of getting changed.

And it is nothing short of ridiculous to expect the PE teacher, who probably has 5 lessons back to back over the course of the average day, to call every parent before making a decision. If 3 kids bring a note, that's 15 minutes of phone calls by the time you have left your class unsupervised to get changed (not a good idea). That is clearly not practical and clearly unnecessary. Just follow the rules and bring the kit.

Not all schools do have the rule that bringing in kit is compulsory. The OP doesnt say that this was the case.

The parent said the child should not be taking part in PE. That should be the end of it between teacher and student. If the teacher has a problem with this then they should take it up with the parent not the student.

While teachers may know students in general the parent knows the child in particular.

If I send my child in with a note to say they are not going to take part in PE then I expect that to be respected. To protect my child's privacy and dignity I may not have put the true reason in the note. It isnt for the teacher to decide that they know better.

ThanksSpanx: If the child is so ill that getting changed to keep score or move some wickets around is going to put them at risk, they shouldn't be at school or should be removed from the lesson by medical. It isn't that I think PE teachers are doctors; it is that I think most activities in PE where the child gets changed and helps out or walks rather than runs are not going to do them harm, IF their injury or condition isn't serious enough to warrant being off school or being properly signed off (medical note). Most adults are capable of understanding minor injuries to the level that they can make a judgement on that. If it's too serious for them to be trusted to do that, keep the child off. Or do the sensible thing and send the note, but accept that the teacher's reaponse may be in the realm of 'reasonable adjustment' rather than allowing your child to opt out completely. You send your kids to school, you accept that someone else is now in a position of responsibility, as far as I am concerned anyway.

Anyway, I am not going to respond to any further posts on this thread as I've expressed my view pretty clearly, I think.

Good luck with the toe, OP, hope she is better soon.

Yes, she might have been capable of it, but what's the point? It doesn't benefit her or anyone else. You surely don't expect parents to go to the GP (where there are often no appointments for 2-3 weeks) to get a sick note to be signed off PE, do you? Really?

Trifle, yes I did read every word of all of your posts. My opinion is the same.

Anyway, why can a teacher not use common sense. If the only pair of trainers available were too small then forcing a child who clearly couldn't take part in the lesson because of her injured toe was ridiculous and could easily have done further damage. She could have continued to wear her regular school shoes and no harm would have been done. Nor would it have impeded the lesson in any way.

You sound as though you are one of the types who think that it would be "character building". I remember PE teaches with that attitude. Fortunately they did pay attention to notes from parents though, and it wasn't a compulsory part of the curriculum for O Levels (pre-GCSEs).

We'll have to agree to disagree. I rarely complain and always try to maintain positive and open lines of communication with everyone involved in my family's care but I would take great exception to a teacher causing pain and suffering to my child for the want of a bit of common sense.

Treating people with respect and dignity should trump a rule about never forgetting your PE kit.

I'm pleased to say the vast majority of teachers I've come across wouldn't dream of risking a child's health and I've huge respect for the profession. Fingers crossed we don't encounter too many like you in the future trifle

I don't know why some take PE so seriously. It is only useful to those who want to become a PE teacher. For everyone else it puts them off sport and exercise.

PE teachers. Auto-correct!!

99 not sure about that! I loved PE and had great PE teachers but never wanted to be a PE teacher.

Trifle, if all parents took your view that if a child is too ill to do PE then then shouldn't be in school, absence rates would be through the roof and no doubt your school would have plenty to say about that!

I cannot seriously believe that as a teacher you would prefer a child to miss out on all their other lessons by staying off school rather than just miss PE.

I think it is one thing to make a child borrow kit if they repeatedly forget theirs, but that is a completely different issue to deliberately ignoring the parent's note and deciding that you know best. You are showing complete disregard for patental authority and the fact that parents are in a much better position to know about their child's medical situation than you are.

If you get a note and feel the parent or child is continuously lying to you, then the correct course of action is to respect the note for that lesson and take the issue up with the parent directly or via your senior management team.
You need to do this for your own protection as well as that of the child - if you ignore a note and make the wrong call, resulting in injury, you could find yourself in court.

At least they don't make you do it in your underwear these days if you haven't got your kit!

PE isnt the same as other lessons. You dont have to take off most of your clothes and put on different clothes to do maths (unless the curriculum has changed more than I realised).

Getting changed can be the big problem. For the student experiencing an intimate problem which they dont want shared with their fellow students (eg incontinence, heavy period) then a poorly toe might be the 'safe' reason to give. The PE teacher doesnt need to know just respect the fact that the parent has said 'no' to PE which should include getting changed.

the teacher has to decide whether or not the excuse is valid
No, the parent has made the decision (not an excuse), the teacher has no authority to over-rule the parent. If the teacher has a problem with that, they need to raise it with the parent.

This part of the argument seems increasingly futile, since so many people appear to have no respect for teachers and their professional judgement that they don't think other adults are able to make a distinction between a broken leg and a sore thumb.
I have a huge amount of respect for the teaching profession and most of the teachers in my kids' school. However, a teacher's professional judgement does not include sufficient medical training to over-rule a parent.

And it is nothing short of ridiculous to expect the PE teacher, who probably has 5 lessons back to back over the course of the average day, to call every parent before making a decision
The teacher has no decision to make - the parent has already made it. If the teacher has concerns, they need to follow it up later in the day - as they would with any child they had concerns about.

I absolutely would not have allowed my child to take their PE kit in when I had made it clear that they were not going to be taking part in PE because it would be sending a mixed message. Not taking part meant not taking part. Changing into shorts to stand around in the cold, without being able to run to keep warm strikes me as an unnecessary power trip for the teacher. It's a punishment for being injured or ill which could make the condition worse.

This thread has made me go cold all over... horrific memories of school days.

I had terrible period pains as a teenager. A PE teacher made me take part in a tennis lesson despite a note from my mum... fortunately I fainted. Never did PE again! I decided the whole thing was ridiculous and short of procuring a cattle prod, they couldn't actually make me do PE. Teachers were a bit flummoxed but let it go... very sensible!

When my DD had a broken leg she went to school on crutches. The PE teachers didn't expect a note and she was allowed to sit in the library, she loved it and it was the only positive thing about having a broken leg from her point of view.

I didn't send a note, I assumed a teacher would have enough commonsense to realise she couldn't do PE. Fortunately I was right.

YANBU, however the PE teacher may of found something for your Dd to do had she of taken her PE kit without putting additional pressure on her toe but at the end of the day a parent knows their child better than anyone regardless of what others like to think. I don't agree with the small shoes though that must of been agony!.

My Ds has Joint hypermobility syndrome and I tend to send notes in if he is in pain or if he has injured himself in other ways which may become aggravated etc during PE (sadly Ds doesn't swell when he sprains so you can't actually see that he has hurt himself) unfortunately he needs the exercise or he will be even worse off. There are 2 PE teachers one of which reminds me of a drill instructor who insists on making him take part in sports such as rugby (when Ds sprained his wrist during PE he was sarcastically asked if he needed an ambulance...yes, one day he probably will) and another who is understanding and encouraging to my DS. Funnily enough the second has managed to get my Ds to try sports which he would of avoided in the past but he doesn't push him when he tires. One obviously pays attention to the notes and one clearly doesn't give a shit because he knows better.

PE teachers do not have medical training and should not be able to overrule the decision of the child's parent in deciding whether or not their dc's injury/illness prevents them from taking part in sporting activity. It is well-known that exercising when ill or injured is detrimental to recovery and often causes conditions to worsen.

Oh and the trivial 'sore thumb'... how are you supposed to catch a ball, wield a bat, do gymnastic floorwork or use apparatus then?

trifle ever had an infected toe?
There's a good reason why you don't keep changing footwear because it's painful!
No there was no need for her to change for PE at all.
If parents kept their kids off the school would then be moaning at them for abscences.
There was no need for the teacher to decide if the child was well enough, the parent had decided.
What doctor is going to write a note excusing them from pe because of an inected toe or migraines?
Think gps have enough to do.

I can't see why pupils who aren't participating in PE lessons (and I'm not including refereeing etc.) would need to get changed. The only exception is putting on trainers / plimsolls if there is a rule about not having non-sports shoes on a court or by a pool etc. - in which case I could understand having to take them in and wear them. You don't force a child to wear small borrowed shoes - either don't go on the area (if sports soles necessary) or have bare feet / socks.
If a parent sends a note in then the child should be excused, unless it's happened a lot (in which case the child is excused a final time but then the parents spoken to about it) or if they think the note has been forged (ring the parent to check - if necessary excusing the child but clobbering them with a punishment afterwards if the note was dodgy)
This brings back memories of my games teacher. She'd have been the type to force someone to participate.

Fortunately most of us (teachers and parents alike) are more sensible than trifle and/or have children going to schools with more sensible attitudes.

I have written a note for ds asking that he be excused PE as he was suffering Post Concussive Syndrome. And another time when he was well enough to go to school (marginal!) but probably not well enough to do PE.

I didn't write a note after he broke his collarbone at rugby training at school - but the PE teacher was sensible enough not to expect him to change into PE gear it was after all under his supervision that ds broke his collarbone . Instead ds helped him in other ways (observing games - giving advice on rugby training sessions - he was in the School of Rugby so most of his PE and 2 other periods were given over to rugby).

I wouldn't go back to the school all guns blazing but more with genuine concern that your note was ignored - and more importantly, that the infected toenail could have been exacerbated by being forced to wear shoes that were too small.

The school my children attended had an absolute rule that you always turned up properly prepared for the lesson. If this was PE then you had the correct kit with you - even if you had a note telling the teacher that there was a medical problem. This did not mean the child ended up doing PE, they were often found something to do that included them but did not mean they were taking full part. At the very least they were expected to change onto the correct kit - even if all they did was sit and watch.

This was meant to teach them the life lesson of being properly prepared - and it was an excellent lesson to learn. So yes you YABU by not sending your child to school properly equiped. YANBU about the child being made to wear footwear of the wrong size - but that would not have been necessary had she taken her own kit.

Trifle

We are not discussing the apparant 'shed load of shit excuses' to miss pe you seem to get at your school.

Unless there is a consistently vague or implausible reason for the child to miss pe regularly then there is no excuse not to believe the parent. If there is a suspicion then this should be taken up with the parent, not by running roughshod over the child at that moment in time.

As eveyone keeps repeating yet you continue to twist to suit your own agenda which seems to be calling all parents of any child who has to miss out pe ' liars, pandering to their kids, disrepecting teachers etc ad nauseum. THere is not one single thing you have said that alters the fact that if a parent sends a note in for a child who has no history of bunking off pe, who has known medical conditions, or who has a one off medical condition then a note is sufficient to excuse them from pe for that day.

Nobody is saying that pe should be banned (unless they have had a bad experience of bullying pe teachers, then its understandable) nor that kids can pick and chose when to do pe or not, or that they are sending notes on a whim to upset the teachers!

I do think you are either on a huge ego trip (which may or may not be linked to being a 'teacher' and are used to 'telling' people your way is best) , you have real issues in being a teacher for some reason, or you are deliberately misunderstanding the posts and are enjoying just winding people up. Either way your repetative posts about disrespecting teachers and gp notes for sprains and infected toes are really getting tedious. How many ways can you say the same thing ridiculous things?

The child was properly equipped for the classes she was taking part in. The parent said no to PE, therefore no kit is required.