School and PE

[Gorja]

DD1 is year 8. She has a badly infected toe that she is on antibiotics for and looks like she may have to have the nail removed.
She was due to do PE today.
I wrote a note this morning explaining she could do PE and set off happily to work. When I got Hime she told me she had given her teacher the nite and been told she had to do PE as it would be ok as it was just handball.
She had been made to wear spare PE kit as I hadn't sent hers with her - as I had written a note so didn't expect her to be doing PE.
She had to wear trainers that were too small for her as that is all they had.
This evening she is in a huge amount of pain and very tearful.
Would I be unreasonable to contact the school and tell them they are not to make her do PE if she has a note?
I do understand that some kids avoid PE and I do know she's not a huge fan of it and probably doesn't try very hard in it.
But surely if as a parent I write a note as she is in pain the school should respect my judgement and not make her participate?
She's my eldest so not sure if I'm over reacting but she really is in a lot of pain tonight which she wouldn't be had she not had to do PE.

I would be seriously pissed off if i needed a doctors appointment and ones were taken up simply so pupils had notes to take to school
What doctor would even write a note for this?

I'd be complaining (and i'm normally on the teacher's side) about this.
They've caused your daughter more pain and possibly made it worse.
The fact she's on medication for this may have been a clue that she's not fit to do pe.
Not to mention how unhygienic!

Trifle who told you your children need a GPs certificate to be excused from PE? It's a very unusual thought.

Op I'd be fuming. What if it gets worse? I have sympathy for PE teachers because they do deal with a lot of wimps and liars but someone with an injury who is only off for the second time in their school career needs to be given the benefit of doubt surely?

I'm sorry but the idea that a GP needs to sign a child off school PE is bloody daft. Students shouldn't be bringing a note in from home every week or forgetting their kit every week so they can avoid the subject. Doesn't sound like that's happening. Unless DD isn't being honest! Perhaps she was made to do it as she has form for "forgetting" kit.
Parents must absolutely be able to pull kids from a PE lesson if their child isn't well enough to do it.

Wolverbamptonwanderer: Who told you they don't? It's a timetabled lesson so I have no reason to believe it isn't compulsory. Parents can't send in a note excusing their child from any other aspect of school.

My aunt was a PE teacher for
30 years. My best friend is one. notes to be excused are a huge part of their day. I've written them for my children. This is common place. Do you have children at school? I don't mean to be an arse but I'm finding it really hard to understand why you genuinely think PE teachers require or expect a GP note.

Wolverbamptonwanderer: I am a teacher (not PE!) and have accepted lots of notes in my time. I understand teachers can excuse a child from PE. I just don't think it is obligatory. The child in this case should have requested to sit out but she should have taken in her kit in case the teacher felt she should participate. That is just my opinion and I am happy to be at odds with others on it without getting annoyed about it. Not trying to be an arse either.

Oh I see so you don't think they need a note but you think without one the school can force the child to do PE? How?

Wolverbamptonwanderer: I don't understand what you mean exactly. It's a lesson, students go to lessons and do as they are asked. Bring kit, get changed, participate if asked. Obviously teachers should not require students to undertake physical activity they can't manage, but it is at the discretion of the teacher how much they allow them not to do.

Thanks for all the responses, I shall talk to the school tomorrow.

I don't think she is lying, we've not long had parents evening and her PE teacher didn't mention anything about her missing PE. She did mention that she is not as enthusiastic as some and lacks co-ordination (takes after me!).

I shall take on board about sending her PE kit with her though for her to referee, keep score etc. I genuinely hadn't thought about that.

I shall talk to DD and make sure she isn't avoiding PE without the nite.
But I do think I need to make the point that if I do write a note I expect that to be respected.

I am just envisaging a child going in and handing over a note and the teacher saying "I don't accept this, do it anyway" which seems bonkers

Wolverbamptonwanderer: I don't see why. It's the same with absences - parents can call in and give a reason but the school can choose to not authorise it without medical evidence if appropriate. It's the same with homework that the child didn't do - I frequently get notes telling me the child 'couldn't' do it. Doesn't stop me using my judgement about whether the excuse is valid. Parents have to accept that when they send their child to school, some things come under the discretion of the school. Teachers aren't out to hurt or harass kids and where there is good realm for the child to sit out that will happen 99 times out of 100. But it is discretionary.

I see what you mean - fair point. I do think it's slightly different when parents are claiming medical reasons though. It doesn't feel like
The schools place to over ride that and go above the parents head to another professional.

Playing sport is not remotely comparable to an actual lesson.

Of course teachers should not be allowed to "overrule" medical needs and force sick/disabled/injured kids into playing sport against their medical needs!

For the exact same reason an art teacher can't force a kid who is allergic to clay to make pottery, a domestic science teacher can't force a kid who is allergic to peanuts to cook peanut brittle, and a French teacher can't force a kid who has lost their voice to do an oral exam.

If someone did that to my kid I would sue.

YANBU. My DD started secondary with a broken collarbone. A consultant orthopaedic surgeon advised no PE until half term - unprotected break because you cant put a collar bone in a sling.

I set all this out in a letter addressed to the head, as advised by the office. After three weeks the PE teacher ordered my DD to bring kit and get changed. She couldn't use a ruck sack, she couldn't carry two bags. She asked me not to call school because the teacher was so scary. As the adult I spoke to the head of KS 3, as advised in the event of problems or misunderstandings, explaining that dd hadn't wanted me to get in touch but I was concerned about her taking two bags, refereeing/registering where a ball could whack into her healing break. Told not a prob, it would be sorted.

The next PE,lesson the cow bawled her out and tod her next time to complain to her and not her mother.

I made a formal complaint and the head took it seriously; the head of KS3 was horrified. That it happened at all, spoke volumes about the school's mgt though.

Infected toe needing sock and shoe changing (into borrowed ones must contravene Elf and Safety.

I'd write a polite letter to the head and request clarification about the procedure to be followed. If it doesn't stipulate a fit note with adjustments specified, they should have accepted your note. Ask them to confirm why they did not and that they confirm too that the lent socks and trainers have been permanently disposed of.

These people actually wouldn't get away with it in the real world where they have to manage adults. Most organisations have policies around dignity and respect. I shouted at dd's ht once she told me not to (another H&S breach and far more serious) and I merely said I was mirroring how her office staff had just spoken to a succession of girls. Admittedly the school had just breached a setios safeguarding issue and we had already decided to move our dd the following term.

The head's departure was announced before dd left. There were worse things going on.

Not all teachers are beyond reproach and not all young people are insubordinate liars.

*Playing sport is not remotely comparable to an actual lesson.

Of course teachers should not be allowed to "overrule" medical needs and force sick/disabled/injured kids into playing sport against their medical needs!*

Sorry but we're going to have to agree to disagree about PEnnot being a lesson. And 'medical needs' that are evidenced should always be met. But what about the note that says 'DD has a stomach ache/headache/period pains and can't do PE'? Not 'medical needs' - just a minor ailment. If the child is too sick to get changed for PE and throw a ball, he or she should have a doctor's note or be kept off.

Wolverbamptonwanderer I appreciate that to many parents this seems counter-intuitive but there are good reasons for it. Some parents try it on on behalf of their kids - nonsense about period pain and tummy aches to get the kid out of PE because they don't want to do it. If you make it compulsory for the teacher to have to accept any note from any parent for any spurious reason, it undermines the delivery of a part of the school curriculum. Teachers should always be responsible and put the safety of the child first, but some excuses aren't good enough and it is right that the teacher can override the note and tell the kid to get changed. Again, just my opinion.

OP, I would be spitting iron filings in your shoes. Definitely have a word. I really hope your DD's toe has not been made worse by this.

Unless the PE teacher is medically qualified, it is not her/his place to over-rule a parent's judgement that their DC is unfit to take part in sport. It is not at all the same thing as other lessons. I really cannot fathom any logic that it possibly could be.

And for other posters whose DC may be permanently injured or disabled by engaging in PE, yet were forced to anyway: words fail. I can't even begin to imagine how incandescent you must have been. Wtf is wrong with some people?

I wrote a note to excuse my son from PE last year when he'd had an operation on his arm and we were told by the surgeon no PE for 6 weeks. School accepted it without questions, as they did my letter telling them he wouldn't be in school for almost a week while he had the operation. We were never asked for "proof" at any point and unless there are underlying concerns surrounding a child's absence record it's totally unnecessary!

I am happy to repeat playing sport is not comparable to other lessons.

School sport has no correlation with regular healthy exercise or a good diet. I'm mid 50's now - you should see the state of some of my sporty ex classmates. I teaches team work - oh yes, like the sporty girls being unkind to the non sporty ones and the PE teacher calling the nerdy girls "the divs". It teaches self esteem, oh no it doesn't, it feeds the conceit of the uber confident.

The day I left school I vowed nobody would ever make me hit throw or catch another ball again. I am within my BMI, fit, healthy and exercise by gardening, walking, looking after my family working full time and being ever on the go.

Oh my sporty classmates, fat, haggard, boring and never had the wherewithal to leave their home town where they were the local prima donnas. Load of old balls is PE if you ask me.

A few years back my dd had injured her foot and was on crutches. We sent a note in to school saying she couldn't do PE - but they still made her get changed into PE kit and stand on one leg, supported by crutches, at the side of the pitch in the freezing cold for an hour.

Actually trifle what a rude response. "kid" really? I thought teachers liked to think themselves well, often better educated than parents.

OldRosesDoomed: I don't follow you, sorry.

I'm so glad you're not a PE teacher Trifle. My son is nursing an intermittent injury and awaiting physio. I emailed the teacher and explained he didn't need to be excused but that if he needed to stop or stretch etc please could that be allowed. I got a lovely email back thanking me for keeping that teacher involved and promising he would do everything to keep my child comfortable in the lesson. Win win.
Being unwell and being unable to do PE isn't like not being able to do the HW. Get HW, try HW, can't do it? Seek help before the lesson. Problem sorted.
How on earth should we "evidence" kids having medical issues? GPs don't want to write notes for PE. Parents should be able to speak for their kids. If parents write notes every week then that should be queried by the school. Not teachers forcing kids fo do PE

Wolfiefan: Hmm. I haven't said that I don't take a reasonable view of when a child does need to sit out. I'm actually fairly flexible about these things in practice. I am only saying that the decision can't reasonably be completely out of the teacher's hands unless medical evidence is provided. Where it isn't provided, asking the child to change and participate to the best of their ability (whether that is as score keeper, walking instead of running, etc) is perfectly reasonable.

Tell the "kid" trifle. Did you mean child, pupil or even young person. But do excuse me I thought you were speaking on behalf of teachers. Perhaps not.