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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be at my wits end and hope there's a doctor on mumsnet on a Sunday?

198 replies

Whenisright · 27/11/2016 13:36

I know I am but here goes.... For at least the last couple of months I wake up with horrible aching mid back pain. Every single morning. It means I simply can't lie in or catch up on sleep, despite being exhausted (twins). The discomfort is so bad I have to get up. Nothing I do in bed helps (position change / stretching / moving beds or surface), I have to get up. Within 10 mins of being up I'm absolutely fine. I have a new excellent mattress, have tried a different mattress and memory foam. Tried different sleeping positions. I'm at my wits end as its getting earlier and earlier. By 3am I was gulping painkillers as I desperately needed to sleep and then was up at 5.45 with the twins. Dr said they could refer me for physio and advised to take ibuprofen. Not helpful. Any ideas at all?? It is my whole middle back and comes round to my ribs at the front. Any Drs here? Thanks!


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OP posts:
ElphabaTheGreen · 29/11/2016 00:04

No, I really don't think I am, Brat. I'm a clinical specialist therapist in this area with 17 years of experience, preceded by four years of undergraduate training. If individuals find osteopathy useful/effective that's fine, but mainstream clinical evidence does not support it, so I will continue to advise against it.

PacificDogwod · 29/11/2016 00:08

It;s irrelevant what any of us have found useful or not in the past or whether we've had good or shitty experiences with physiotherapists or osteopaths: the plural of anecdote does not data make.

And none of us here can diagnose the OP.
To me it is not at all clear whether she has mechanical back pain (odd site), gall bladder problems or other GI problem, something neuropathic, or any number of other things that I cannot think of this time of night.

She needs a RL assessment.
By her GP for a RV is her symptoms have changed or she wishes to follow-up on any of the suggestions made on this thread, or a physiotherapist to pursue the MSK angle.

BratFarrarsPony · 29/11/2016 00:10

Osteopaths do degree level training as well, y know...:)

ElphabaTheGreen · 29/11/2016 00:24

Yes, obtained mostly from a very limited number of single-purpose osteopathy colleges, answerable to only one professional body, who happens to benefit financially from all of these colleges.

AutumnHaze · 29/11/2016 03:39

Don't want to appear flippant but do you drink much water? I had back pain for months at one stage, tried massages and physio, nothing helped. When I started sipping large bottles of water at my desk at work it stopped. I reckon my back joints were dehydrated and not cushioned properly. Worth a try maybe? Good luck anyway!

38cody · 29/11/2016 07:28

It's not gallstones - not if it's every night in bed and goes as soon as you are up. Def not, I'm sure it's due to an epidural?

Backingvocals · 29/11/2016 08:25

But sorry the GP cannot identify a gallbladder problem if there is just some pain. It could be anything. If it's a possibility it needs a referral. There's one thing protecting NHS resources and there's another thing insisting that a GP can deal with everything.

This may not be gallbladder. But it could be lots of things and the GP is not able to help. Once first line suggestions have failed it's fair enough to request further investigations.

Fwiw my GP did not even attempt to diagnose my back pain. Referred me for physio. This was useless despite all my efforts at it. In the end I manage it with weights, Pilates and osteopath.

Chaby · 29/11/2016 08:28

How old are your twins? I had this for about a year after my son was born but it gradually just got better. Dr just said it was related to joints loosening up while pregnant.

CherrySkull · 29/11/2016 09:46

actually the GP can identify gallstones, it throws out the LFT's on a blood test.

My LFT's are showing signs of gallbladder issues, although i have no pain.. i've been told if i get any symptoms they will refer me for an ultrasound.

With Physios, i have had hit and miss luck with them, the first one i ever saw did me some good with helping to strengthen my back muscles to support my spine, the second identified where my issue was (i hit the roof when she pressed on my sacral area) but couldn't help with the pain this time.

Backingvocals · 29/11/2016 10:05

I guess that would be indicative but you'd want to see a specialist, that's all I'm saying. And this GP hasn't requested those tests.

All the OP has asked for is suggestions for what to do next and she's had lots and lots. Lots of shared experience, lots of ideas. Most of these will be wrong obviously. But the OP can read through and see which ones seem to fit. If she's already had her gallbladder removed, she'll know it's not that, for example.

But posts about "randoms on the internet" are missing the point of this thread which is to look for suggestions as to what's happening so that the OP can seek further advice with a bit more of an idea of what the range of causes could be.

Has the OP come back, btw?

ElphabaTheGreen · 29/11/2016 10:11

Backingvocals She was on quite a bit yesterday and since she's got twins (breastfed ones at that), I think we can cut her some slack for infrequent check-ins Wink

Backingvocals · 29/11/2016 10:12

totally Smile

I was just wondering if any of the suggestions resonated with her at all.

Cantthinkofabloodyusername · 29/11/2016 10:32

We are very lucky to have an amazing local osteopath (with a 6 week waiting list 😱) he is certainly well enough qualified as his previous career was as a orthopaedic surgeon!

Whenisright · 29/11/2016 13:08

Thank you so much everyone, apologies I haven't replied sooner but there were so many replies to read and I have two poorly twins. I wish I could reply to everyone but I have read every comment and all very helpful. I am going back to the gp on Friday armed with lots of different ideas and will report back! I'm pretty certain it's not gallstones, I have read up and it just doesn't fit but will definitely mention it to dr. My twins are 20 months. They were born at 24 weeks and I had an emergency c section under general, no epidural. I don't think it's caused by positional breastfeeding as I'm always comfy feeding them. Going to really play around with pillows, heat pads, stretching, lose some weight, address my diet in the meantime as well. I've found a Pilates class I can do on a weekend as well. Fingers crossed I get to the bottom of it! Thanks again everyone.

OP posts:
atess · 29/11/2016 14:42

Sounds like you've lost your stability from
The pregnancy I had a big baby and a lot of hip pain after birth you probably need to see a Physio to sort the source of the problem and then A class like Pilates to add some core strength

brownpurse · 29/11/2016 14:55

Mountain and molehill spring to mind.

ElphabaTheGreen · 29/11/2016 16:24

You get what you pay for when you 'post for traffic' on AIBU, brownpurse Grin

RattyNscatty · 29/11/2016 16:59

First I want to offer huge sympathy and gentle virtual hugs to you. Back pain is horrible whatever the cause.
I herniated a disc 3 years ago and the pain was unbelievable. Things that helped me...website called backcare.com. A charity for people with back issues.
Loads of Pilates (although yoga could be good too)
Tens machine...cost about £20 from amazon or boots. I loved it and wore it day and night for 2 weeks...the pain very gradually started to fade.
For me it took about 18 weeks.total..but didn't have to have the operation- which would have been like having the original injury over again.

Best of luck...hope you find some relief soon

ChanglingNight · 29/11/2016 18:40

Op, I have the same pain, although mine never goes.... and twins who were breastfed as well (well into toddler hood).

I have hypermobile joint syndrom/elhor danlos sydrom and chronic pain so have more than tried everything suggested here and more. There are a bunch of obvious things missing from my pov, so here goes.

If you havn't had experience of pain related issues before its important to start by treating it as medical, and going to the gp, repeatedly if necessary and to a different gp if you don't feel listened to. Osteos/chrios/acupuncturists while they may have a valid place (mine picked up on my hypermobility after a decade of physios/consultants missed it) are not medical professionals. They may have a great deal of knowledge and training (but again may not) but they do not have the medical back ground a hcp has.

If gp has ruled out the likelyhood of galstones/kideny stones or other medical possibilities- are these are looked at on the likely 'risk' of you having these not a 100% certainty at initial stages- they refer onto physio. Physios will treat as msk, but if there is not a reasonable improvement then they can recommend mri and further specialists for assessments. From a msk pov you are over weight, have been through a twin pregnancy with all the relaxin that brings, lost alot of core strength and muscle tone, and likely changed your activities.

Consider what you did before and what you do now from a msk pov- you carry two kids, you bend to put them in buggy/car/cots etc, do you also spend a lot of time in the kitchen? Bending over counter tops, to prepare foods/clean up? This would hit that exact point in your back, combined with heavier breasts/perhaps bra not fitting great, and add to the stiffening up many pepole begin to get overnight that would likely explain it. Pilates is the safest way to beging to build core strength but look for a pilates studio before some fitness pilates in a gym- post natal pilates/back care pilates/private sessions, and practice in between along with loosing weight. Physio can check if your stomach muscles have split, advised on posture, foot wear (podiatrist referall also), provide specific exercises. This is the starting point, if you don't have improvement or it gets worse you go back to gp.

You must take pain killers as gp advises. Chronic pain begins as regular pain that we become sensitised to because when our body experiences pain and the nerve endings split and the receptors in our brain increase to pick up the pain signals, which then means we experience a lesser pain as worse. Taking pain killers interrupts the pain signals so we don't become sensitised. Paracetamol can be taken with a NSAI like nurofen, but you can also have a low dose opiate like cocodamol or copying dydramol (which also contain paracetamol) ontop of nsai's, and there are stronger nsai's also. The breast feeding support network can advise on what's safe to bf on, their specialist pharmacist allways knows more than GPS on this subject and can provide research for you to print off and take in. Painkillers should be taken even if you don't feel then pain during the day as they prevent it.

Breastfeeding is a red herring btw- the research shows bf dosen't increase the relaxin that looses joints, in fact because it often stops periods it prevents the small amount of relaxin that kicks in to start our periods and it stops the cycle that drops the (stabilising) oestrogen and ups the (destabilising) progesterone. However, the positions we end up in, especially with twins, can lead to back pain. Also, you say 20 months? Have your periods returned? The restating of the above hormones could make joints looser. When we experience pain our core muscles switch off which then increases poor movements and further pain. Strong core muscles protect us from pain, hence why pilates works for so many.

Also, look at diet- magnesium and iron deficiencues, along with vit d like suggested can cause pain, although more commonly achy all over pain, but after everything your body has been through and how easy it is to ignore ourselves when we have twins, have a look at feriglobin plus liquid and a narural magnesium liquid supplement.

Chiros (I would never touch them) oesteos (mine were amazing, and used to be physios) acupuncture (NHS pain clinics offer electroaccupunture that has peer reviewed evidence basis), bowen techniqe/Alexander technique all worth trying by thus stage. And the pain clinic will recommend if you have been through every other option by that point.

Tens machine, heat pads or cold packs to reduce swelling (whichever helps you), magnesium salt hot baths, magnesium spray to apply directly. Massage, aromatherapy, infra red saunas. The mox box acupuncturists use is lovely imo.

Building muscle takes along along time, and needs a lot of practice small daily physio exercises daily, pilates, hypdrotherapy, take real commitment to produce successful results of reducing pain- but it manages it long term.

Hope this isn't too much of an essay for you ; ) hope your twins are better soon. Oh and invest in soft structured carriers for carrying, or wraps or slings- it's safer on your back than just lifting one on each hip. My 7 yrold still take a turn in our preschooler connecta.

ElphabaTheGreen · 29/11/2016 20:15

Brilliant post, Changelingnight

HateSummer · 29/11/2016 20:18

I'm a doctor of love. Pm me for some advice. Wink

(Please don't, I'm not really)

abeandhalo · 29/11/2016 20:35

I had a back injury at the end of last year) which I got from spending too long sitting on the floor bent over wrapping items in bubble wrap!) and it was completely fine during the day but then at night I would wake up in complete agony, reaching for painkillers, having 1am tearful baths, etc.

I slept sitting almost upright with a spare duvet propping me up for a couple of weeks & then it was fine.

Such odd pain though, sort of across the bra strap zone and like I said, I didn't even feel it in the day.

PacificDogwod · 29/11/2016 22:01

Changeling, great post Thanks

MohammedLover · 29/11/2016 23:35

Very curious as to why you would try all that ^ but not see a Chiropractor ChangingNight?

ChanglingNight · 30/11/2016 06:11

Because that's the medically advised route, and a chiros arn't medical professionals. Medical professionals only recommend them by the time you get to pain clinic type scenarios. My oesteos were very helpful, but even they strongly recommended sticking to physio and other medical advise.

Besides which, being hypermobile the chances if a chiros or even a traditional oesteo (mine are cranial) they would likely dislocate my joints and make things dangerously worse. And I knew far tooany people whose back pain turned out to be underlying medical issues their chiros missed and made worse (cancer in one case, that the gp would have had a much better likely hood of picking up on) and I have known many people who have been left with damage (and empty pockets) after seeing chiros.