To be at my wits end and hope there's a doctor on mumsnet on a Sunday?

[Whenisright]

I know I am but here goes.... For at least the last couple of months I wake up with horrible aching mid back pain. Every single morning. It means I simply can't lie in or catch up on sleep, despite being exhausted (twins). The discomfort is so bad I have to get up. Nothing I do in bed helps (position change / stretching / moving beds or surface), I have to get up. Within 10 mins of being up I'm absolutely fine. I have a new excellent mattress, have tried a different mattress and memory foam. Tried different sleeping positions. I'm at my wits end as its getting earlier and earlier. By 3am I was gulping painkillers as I desperately needed to sleep and then was up at 5.45 with the twins. Dr said they could refer me for physio and advised to take ibuprofen. Not helpful. Any ideas at all?? It is my whole middle back and comes round to my ribs at the front. Any Drs here? Thanks!

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I see an osteopath for back problems, lower and upper, though not middle. Imo, they are very good solution - will put back any joints that are misaligned. A proper osteopath will take a full history and will examine your spine. If it is not mechanical they will send you back to your gp

as a long term back sufferer I would highly recommend making an appointment with an osteopath if you can afford it. Roughly £60 for the first consultation including treatment and £35 thereafter. I hev been to doctors and physios to no avail. after the first session with an osteopath I felt an improvement, two sessions later I was pain free. I have lapses from time to time every 12 months or so, but one or two top up sessions keeps me mobile and pain and drug free.

Please don't march in demanding an MRI - they cost a bomb, which is why your GP has referred you to a physio. As you say that your core is v weak it's most likely that causing the issue, or muscle weakness in a particular area. A physio would be better able to treat that than a GP. The chances of an MRI picking up anything is minute.

Honestly, you're far better off losing weight and doing core stability exercises twice daily - all you need do is Google it and you'll get tons of exercises you can do that will help.

I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it really does take a lot of sustained effort on behalf of the patient to recover from lower back pain - there is VERY rarely a 'magic fix' cause by another problem. Do the suggested exercises, lose weight, and if that doesn't work (and you can honestly say you've 100% stuck to the exercises/diet) then you'll be justified in requesting an MRI.

I hope you feel better soon, backache sucks (bitter experience talking).

Stay away from Osteos and Chiropractors
At best, they are poorly-trained physics. At worst, they can do serious and lasting damage

Bollocks, whilst I don't have a lot to say for chiropractors, ostepaths are degree educated usually to Masters level.

To the OP, you can find a registered osteopath and read about the treatment here:

www.osteopathy.org.uk

Physiotherapists are experts in functional anatomy and where I live/work are a vital part in accessing specialist backspin services including MRI scanning.

Pain below the shoulder blades radiating round to the front may well be neuropathic in nature i.e. the nerves that run along your ribs getting irritated. Have you tired a TENS machine? May be worth a go and won't do any harm.

Osteopathy and physiotherapy use very different 'models' of how they view the human body and don't see eye to eye
I know people who have benefited from either approach, but osteopathy carried out badly can be dangerous. It is also expensive and always seems to come with a recommendation for x-rays (useless for backpain unless you were involved in some kind of accident), at least 12 treatments (£££) and a diagnosis that something is 'out of alignment' (I would take that with a pinch of salt as none of us are totally symmetrical).

Personally, I'd see a physio.
If the NHS physio takes too long, consider seeing somebody privately (here @ £35 for an assessment).

When I had kidney problems I was on such a high cocktail of prescribed meds and the pain was unbearable at night. What really helped me was laying on a wheat bag. It also helped me to use one when I had a frozen shoulder years ago.

No harm in trying one if you haven't yet. I wish you well, coping with twins is exhausting even when you're on top form I have that T shirt!!)

Gall bladder.

The pain is known to be worse at night and lying down.

'If you're in London, I can recommend the British School of Osteopathy in Borough.'

I second this, 20 minutes with one of their final year exam students and the examiner fixed my hip and pelvic problems which i think was related to giving birth - physio just told me not to exercise and take pain-killers.

Cheaper than physio as well.

Gall bladder went through my mind as well. Especially post pregnancy.

I would expect your stomach muscles are separated. They checked me at 6 weeks here in the US and I was sent for physio. It didn't close the gap so I had the surgery. I still do Pilates 1-2 times a week.

My thoughts would be gallbladder TBH
Is it mid back and under your ribs?

My dad started seeing a chiropractor whilst waiting for an NHS physio, it didn't really improve but he kept going, when he saw the physio a few months later she said some of the exercises were probably actually making it worse for his type of injury and they had advised him opposite on cold vs hot compress.

I would imagine that between recent weight gain and loss of core muscle tone, your back is really struggling. Pilates will really help your core, and then something like Weight Watchers or similar to start getting back to your healthy weight.

I don't think that a trip to a Chiro or Osteopath will work any magical wonders - it sounds like it's going to take a bit of dull hard work - even less fun with baby twins on the go, alas!

It does sound like your core muscles (lack of) are the most likely issue!

My GP recommended a very good back which explains all and gives exercises

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-Steps-To-A-Pain-Free-Life-How-to-Rapidly-Relieve-Back-Neck-and-Shoulder-Pai-/371796593212?hash=item5690cdca3c:g:enEAAOSwY0lXQnkR

I have a bad back and it's much worse the heavier I am . I would try and lose weight asap And maybe ask your gp for a slimming world referral . You can still have lots of carbs .

Hi op I'm guessing gallstones. I have twins and got alot of pain starting in my back( along the bra line) that then radiated around to the front. It was always at night and lying down made it worse. I made a note of what I was eating and found the usual fatty and acidic foods eaten up to 6 hrs earlier gave me alot of pain. I have the classic gallstone characteristics of fat female and fertile!

For almost ten years I've had radiating pain in my shoulder blade/back area when I sit upright in a chair. Various GP's and physio's have said it's a sore muscle or posture issue. It's got much worse recently causing radiating pain and pins and needles down my arm and into my fingers. I went to see a chiropractor who said it is in my neck, probably a pinched nerve causing referred pain to my shoulder and back area and tingling into fingers . I'm also very stiff across lower back when I wake up in the morning, which goes after 10 mins of getting up. He said all my muscles were very tight and he recommended I try and get an x ray on my neck before doing anything else. So I went back to GP and told him all of this, he did some strength tests on my arms and hands and said one is far weaker than other and referred me for a neck X-ray. I had that done within a week and I'm now waiting to hear. I suspect the results won't show anything if it's a nerve problem not a bone problem.

But, all of this after years of doctors and physiotherapists saying I had a sore muscle in my shoulder. I haven't. No wonder their physio did nothing for me. .

It's worth going to your GP and asking for a thorough examination and not just being fobbed off with random physio

Paddington I have ongoing problems with a trapped nerve giving pain in my shoulder and arm, no magical cures I'm afraid but shocked that the GP/physio never considered that diagnosis! Very painful and mine is mainly due to the fact I have very tight ligaments and muscles - I really must force myself to do more stretches and exercises!!!

Using the laptop on my lap makes it worse and the pain is always worst at night

Op do insist on your gall bladder being checked out, just in case!

Making sure your bra fits well is something I meant to suggest earlier, but chrome froze on me. Don't underestimate the effect of heavy, badly supported boobs on an already sore back!

If you do see a physiotherapist, they might refer you on for some hydrotherapy which can be great for core strength and the niggles that come with it being poor. Alternatively look for some aquafit classes, if you can't get the hydrotherapy.

I was going to say gallstones, someone's already mentioned it.
Pain starts in the centre of stomach and wraps around to the middle of the back, feels like labour.
Is the pain as bad as that?

Wow, I have very similar symptoms. Awful back pain when lying down, in any position, that gets better within minutes if I sit up or get up. Mine is lower and middle back pain.
Thanks to this thread I'll start working on my core muscles, could be the problem as they're probably weak since having my daughter.

OP the only position that doesn't leave me in bad pain is to prop myself up, so two pillows and one of those reading pillows shaped like an upside down V. But the two arms of upside down V have to be pushed together and be under my mid back with my head almost coming off the top of the pillow. For some reason that position is most effective at delaying my back pain.

Are you still breastfeeding? Elevated hormone levels combined with sustained postures during feeding can contribute to this.
A look at your positioning whilst feeding/ caring for babies would be a good start.

Unlike previous poster, never been recommended x-ray nor 12 appointments by Osteopath.

I've decided to see one every six months, even though there's no pain. Equivalent of a car service. Best thing I ever did.

If it goes round the front under your rib cage perhaps gallstones?

I am a great believer in osteopaths. If you are in London/Herts I can give you details of an excellent one