to think my child should not be wetting herself in year 1

[user1480243135]

Just putting this in a busier area. My daughter is 5 and in year 1. She wets herself all the time. I'm honestly at a loss, have tried so many different things including the doctor and I'm paranoid what the teachers must think of us. She doesn't seem at all bothered. Has anyone any experience of this?

What is hyper focus, please?

She doesn't have special needs. I'm pretty sure it's laziness

It could be that she isn't getting enough warning that she needs to go, my dd has a sensitive bladder and we get very little notice. What was she like when you toilet trained her? Do you notice there is a particular part of the day that the wetting is worse? Try to keep a diary of input and output and when accidents occur, it may give you an idea of what's going on and if you do get referred that is something they will ask before they will treat

Hyper-focus - basically that she gets so engrossed in something she is doing/watching/listening to that she blocks out everything else around her.

Your DD has a problem, and you need to get to grips with helping her. Saying she 'shouldn't be doing this' and that you're worried about 'what the teacher must think of us' is completely unhelpful. Sorry if that sounds unsympathetic.

My DD was like this last year in Reception (age 4/5).

I did some research. First, I contacted ERIC (an incontinence charity) and followed all their advice and information.

The problem still persisted. I did more research and went to my GP to get a referral to a private consultant - a paediatrics urologist. After six months of seeing his clinic, she was 'cured'.

First, he put her on a daily sachet of Movicol. I didn't think she was constipated, but it turned out that she was. Long term mild constipation can remove the ability of the brain to 'feel' the signal of a full bladder. Because there is always a sensation of pressure coming from the bowel/bladder region, the young brain learns to block it out. Hence, DD was just wetting herself regularly (several times a day).

Next, he sent us to his clinic where a nurse did 'bladder retraining' biofeedback. DD was hooked up to a computer, with sensors stuck on her skin around her tummy and perineum. Then she played video games which required her to squeeze and relax her pelvic floor muscles - she could see the results instantly on the screen (e.g. a fish 'leaping' to the surface or dropping to the ocean floor). She loved these sessions.

The nurse also gave us careful instructions to follow at home. For example, DD had to drink a lot of fluids (which seemed counter intuitive) - because it is easier to begin recognising the sensations of a very full bladder.

After about eight weeks of weekly sessions DD had improved a little. The sessions stopped, but we kept up the drinking/toileting etc. routine that the nurse had set up. Within 2 to 3 months, she had almost completely stopped wetting herself.

Now in the autumn term of Y1 DD has wet herself twice at school in the whole term - whereas in the summer term of R, it was at least twice a day!

You can Google 'biofeedback' bladder retraining and see if there's someone near you. It is not cheap, each session was about £200 (and the consultant appointments were about £150). But if it's an option then I would highly recommend it - but only after you've exhausted the resources of ERIC and any local NHS incontinence clinics.

I don't think she does do that, no, not from what I've seen, if anything she can be quite flighty.

Do you bring her to the toilet regularly?

Yes, she is reminded to go to the toilet at home, which is probably why we don't have many accidents.

My DS had a similar problem in Y1. Not wetting, but frequent desperate need to go. That also turned out to be related to long-term mild constipation causing pressure on the bladder. Couple of weeks of daily Movicol and he was fine.

Also make sure she is emptying her bladder fully when she goes to the toilet. My DD was recommended after she'd finished, to wipe, stand up and do a ten second 'dance', then try again. It's amazing how she can normal squeeze a bit more out.

Do talk to your school nurse and get gp to refer to specialist. We had help from a school nurse ( she had words with the school senco who had been shouting at ds)

The woble watch is excellent and has set a pattern for ds to follow, no accidents since. He just wasn't getting the correct sensory feedback from his bladder.

I wish I'd known about the biofeedback training, it sounds brilliant. I'd cheerfully have paid for that level of help. Ds seems to be right as rain now. He's 7.

I agree with exploring the possibility that she could be constipated. You said that she doesn't drink very much, so you may well need to increase her fluid uptake during the day.

Also, you say that she doesn't have special needs, but also say "She doesn't settle easily to activities. Wanders around. Interupts the teacher when she's talking, irritates the other kids "

Have you talked to her teacher about the difficulties she's having in the classroom?

They could all be linked with the toileting issues (or possibly not!).

You mentioned you asked the teacher to remind her to go to the toilet but you suspect she isn't, could you maybe get your daughter a cheap 'sports type' watch with an alarm that buzzes every hour and tell her when the watch buzzes she must ask to go to the toilet? That was she has a reminder of what she needs to do. Also mention this to the teacher so if she hears her watch beep she can remind her it's time to go to the toilet.
On another thought is she comfortable with going to the toilet on her own? Is she happy to take her own trousers/pull skirt up etc or does she need help at home? Maybe ask the teacher if someone can help her?

Thanks so much for your ideas. I don't think she is very confident with taking her own tights/pants down; she needs help still with dressing.

Could that be the main problem? Can she not wear school trousers with an elasticated waist, so it's something easy to get on and of. I'm 27 and I still struggle with tights . Maybe the easier it is for her to go to the toilet the more likely she will.

I can definitely try that, although she's just as bad wearing leggings or jogging bottoms. It's frustrating as she really is very, very bright (all her teachers have acknowledged this) but I don't think her emotional intelligence is quite as powerful. She's very articulate and I think it masks some other issues.

I had continence problems when I was a little girl. I was quite phobic and frightened of going to the toilet, and embarrassed about people knowing I was going. I've been diagnosed with OCD as an adult and I think that's what it was.

You say there's no Sn.

But there is - a child who at 5yo cannot understand the social non acceptance of weeing oneself and doesn't get embarrassed or care has special needs. They may not be lifelong or long term but yiur absolutely right her emotional intelligence is poor.

Does her school have an ELSA? Can you ask senco if they can work with her. Also ask go to refer to urology to look at bladder etc.

We are all assuming by her reaction she doesn't care or get it but it may possibly be that she does but cannot control it so pretends it's all ok?

What's going on in her life generally? Any significant events? New baby/deaths/relationship changes?

I think the question of how she feels about her body is an excellent one. Does she feel comfortable running about with nothing on or prefer to be covered up? Does she take an interest in what she wears or how her hair is (not necessarily an interest in personal grooming - maybe like my dd she has opinions about not hair brushing)? How are her fine motor skills? You mention she has trouble dressing. How is her behaviour generally? What sort of things is she interested in? You have mentioned some issues at school. Does she have any other quirks like food fads or something else?

When is she wetting? Is she scared of the toilet or asking to go?

Sometimes these things start with a trigger and then can persist because of the attention or a cycle of behaviour. It doesn't always make sense to adults and may not be something your daughter is aware of or able to explain.

Hi OP, my son does get upset if he wets himself but I'm not sure if it's because I've got annoyed, which I know isn't good but it's frustrating. If we are out I've not got a change of clothes I ditch his pants and blow dry his trousers. My son is a bit ADD but otherwise quite normal, he was born a micro prem though so I tend to put these things down to that.

Doesn't sound like she ever really potty trained, has she ever been dry?
I really sympathise with toilet problems my own dd7 had constipation problems for about 2 years and we still need to keep an eye on things. After those problems cleared up, we find she never goes for a wee, and we have to get her bladder on a routine, otherwise she'll hold it all day!

If there's nothing medically wrong, I'd go back to basics with pull ups and try retraining. Good luck this toilet stuff is so hard when you have problems.

I would push for a referral to the incontinence clinic.

ERIC is a great charity. They do have a website and a helpline. worth checking it out:

www.eric.org.uk

Thanks again for replying. I really appreciate it.

No significant events in her life I can think of. She's not bothered about being covered up - is that normal? I did ask her once (in the context of a telling off, which I know I shouldn't have) if it bothered her that all the other children saw her bare bottom and laughed at her and she just shrugged and gave me a defiant sort of look.

Interests - loves animals, especially horses, adores reading, very imaginative, lots and lots of play and inventing stories, some of them bizarrely elaborate. Loads of friends - very popular with older girls as well as girls in her year. She is bright and funny and gorgeous but naughty. She will push the boundaries. If there's every a supply teacher or TA, she is naughty for them and plays up.

The toilets in schools can be grim. My niece has gone through this and has wet pants most days. She doesn't drink at school and attempts to hold everything in until she gets home because she hates the school toilets so much. And in y1 they seem to think they can hold on until break/lunchtime too.

My sons been put in year 2 when he should be in year 3 (we are not in the U.K.) he has a very clear view of right and wrong and follows his own agenda which can be frustrating. He hates showing his bits now which is good as he will get embarrassed if I change him where people can see.