to be pissed off at school 'enrichment' trips

[AugustRose]

I know this has been done many times before but I have just received an email about a 4 day trip to Iceland, costing nearly £1000. During the summer there was a trip to South Africa (it happens every 2/3 years) costing £2500.

This is the second time they have done the Iceland trip and they also have an annual skiing trip which is about £700.

These trips are not inclusive and it's always the same children/families (and teachers) who can afford to go. It's a small secondary of about 600 students but 80% will never be able to go on any of these trips. In Y8 DD1 had a 6 day trip to France that cost us £425 (it was good value) however it took us 6 months to pay for it as I really wanted her to be able to go.

I just get frustrated at the lack of less expensive trips/activities which could include many more children.

Now retired and have done my fair share of trips and residentials, back in the day when we did everything to keep costs down.

Certainly hard work but a lot more fun than classroom teaching.

My 'jolly' comment based on what today's parents tell me.

My older 2 are at secondary school. In year 7 there's a trip to France year 8 it's Germany. About £350 a trip. There are 44 places and 170 children in the year. My oldest went on both trips. We don't go on holidays as we farm so I thought it was great for him to go. Second son went to France but the trip was so over subscribed he wasn't allowed to apply for Germany. So a lot more children's parents can afford it in the younger sons year as so many wanted to go. Whereas the trips weren't full when oldest went.
The school also do a few optional expensive trips. There's a skiing trip each year. Iceland every 2 years, (though it gives each year group one chance to go) There's also a football trip every 4 years. I told my boys they could do one expensive trip each. I thought that was fair. Oldest has just been to Iceland. He's now in year 11. We had almost 2 years to pay the £950 so I thought that was ok. Chance of a lifetime for him and first time on an aeroplane. The younger son is currently in year 8 he's chosen a football trip to Holland. He will be in year 10 when the trip is on. So again we have 2 years to pay the £650
Sounds like OP's school do a lot more trips.

Notmuchtosay1 but it isnt the chance of a lifetime. Volcanoes permitting, Iceland will still be there when your DS is an adult and can arrange and pay for his own trip.

This I think is the problem of the way these trips are marketed first to the school and then to parents. You are all conned into believing that these trips are only possible through school.

Yes I agree with you. He could go one day. But as we don't ever go on holiday I think it's a chance he may never have again. I wish I'd done that sort of thing as a child. My OH won't go on a plane and has no desire to ever travel anywhere. So I just thought it was an opportunity not to be missed one I'd have loved to do.
It was hard paying for it and very over priced though.

Someone asked why schools use travel companies. They obviously do have to cover their costs too and make a profit,mso it does add to the cost.

The reason is that organising trips abroad takes days and days worth of work to organise with a travel company and probably triple that amount of work without one. As the teachers have to.....teach, plus spend evenings and weekends already marking and planning, schools often opt for the travel company to reduce what is already massively labour intensive. It is also about risk assessments etc and having confidence to go to certain parts of the world where the teacher may not have been before, plus parents gain confidence if trips have the input and back up of a professional organisation.

So yes, these trips do become more expensive because of that. However, I have watched teachers negotiate really hard on the price with those companies, and haggle over what is included and look very hard for ways to keep the cost down, without removing the activities which make going to that far flung place worthwhile. And they do that because they want to keep costs down so the cost isn't more prohibitive than it already is. There is a recognition that expensive trips are expensive and also that not everyone will be going by any means.

It might be possible to run some of the trips a bit more cheaply if the school booked every element of it direct with the individual provider - the hotels, museums, transport, insurance, visas, food.....the list would be lengthy, and why would the teacher know the best and most cost effective places to book? And would they be able to plan something that was totally safe and checked out,mig they didn't use a travel company? As parents, I think we are very keen for everything to be safe and risk assessed and when parents go to meetings about theses long haul trips, they do ask loads of questions about these kind of things...fair enough. It all costs and often it's just not possible to put on a long haul trip for a large party on a shoe string budget that someone in their 20s who is travelling might be able to pull off for 2 friends.

I guess people are more widely travelled now and have higher expectations about amounts of travel and experiences....it is just something g that has filtered down to schools too.

And yes, if kids don't go,mint doesn't mean they will never get to visit Iceland or wherever. However, I agree that my children won't do any long haul travelling before leaving home, unless they do it through school. We can't afford to go as a whole family, but actually we might afford a long haul trip for each kid, speed out over several years, because we will only have to pay for one, and can pay in installments over a couple of years. I know we are lucky to be able to afford to do that and many people can't. However, the school running those trips will give our kids some opportunities they wouldn't have had otherwise. They won't go on most of the big trips, but will do lots of day trips and a few weekend type trips too - have never heard them moan or feel aggrieved that some people go and they don't. I really don't think they have a problem with not being able to have everything and neither do I.

We are currently be asked to pay £3500 for Kenya to "volunteer" at a poor school there. A very worthy cause but just completely unaffordable for us. I wouldn't mind an element of fundraising but in a GCSE year I would really rather she concentrates on studying. Not inclusive at all and makes me feel crap as a parent that I can't support her to do this!

I went to private school and they had a few ridiculously expensive trips a year. As one of the kids there funded by a parent's employer I could never afford to go. It was rubbish missing out but as soon as we were over 16/17 we arranged our own accommodation and went at the same time as school did and saved a fortune. It's a shame schools can't do it the way university did it. They had a residential field trip module and offered 3 different locations that would meet the same learning objectives. The cheapest was about £200, the middle was £500 and the top end was about £1200. Most of us didn't want to waste beer money but equally wanted to get away so went for the middle option! I can see how as a teen there's the risk of creating a miniature class hierarchy but as long as everyone is going somewhere surely that's better than being the one left with the 'meaningful' homework to do?

Most schools do charity/community work as well as the holidays.

Trips offer some kids, quite a few, a chance they wouldn't otherwise get. But there are some who would take away that chance because not every parent can afford it. (And sometimes it is not a question of affording it - it is a question of priorities).

I also think teachers do a brilliant job on trips. You could never pay me enough to be responsible for someone else's teenagers in a foreign country for a week!

ChocolateWombat - good posts.

Yumm, is the letter about the trip to Kenya worded in a way that you are being 'asked to pay £3500' in the sense that it sounds like there is an expectation everyone will do this, in the same way letters are sent out saying the whole year group will be visiting X castle next month?

I really can't imagine it says this. I imagine it says something like there is an opportunity for children to attend, which will cost £3500. I think that is much more likely and the subtle difference should make a big difference.

That is loads of money. I would want several whole family holidays over several years for that amount of cash and wouldn't be considering it at all. But I wouldn't feel crap, because it's so ridiculous as an amount of money in my view. If people want to send their kids, I wouldn't envy them TBH, but instead I would think they either had money to burn or were a bit daft to put themselves through paying for it, if they didn't. Why feel crap, when it really will be the minority who go on that trip.

It makes me wonder if this is all a bit like people wanting the latest most expensive trainers or phone or massive TV. Often the people who seem most concerned about these things and seem to value them most, seem to be the people who have least. Somehow having them is a status symbol. Is it like this with these ridiculously expensive trips? Do people want to go on them and parents want to send their kids to somehow gain prestige and shoe off wealth? It's funny, because lots of the people who maybe could afford it, probably won't send their kids, because they simply think it's too much money, unnecessary and they don't have anything to prove.

I understand that if you can't pay for the £10 trip to the museum which is clearly related to the curriculum, that wouldn't make a parent feel great, especially if their child then couldn't go because the school wouldn't fund it,mor dealt insensitively with sorting out funding. However, in my experience schools always will fund people on these essential trips if they can't afford it. If too many can't afford it, they simply don't go on the trip and stop offering them. However, feeling like this about the £10 trip is one thing but feeling crap about not sending a child on a £3500 trip just seems to have lost a sense of perspective about cost and what it is normal to have and afford. Not being able to afford this is entirely normal and choosing not to pay that amount might be very sensible. I still think it's fine for schools to offer it if they are clear it is a minority activity......and I think if parents were a bit less sensitive they would see it's not designed to make them feel crap and actually if they look at the wording it isn't about everyone else going.

Agree with other teachers on here no way is it a holiday , on duty 24 hours a day possibly with a sick child.Went on a ski trip once never been so exhausted in my life! Trips optional and some children with a years notice can contribute.Daughter at 12/13 had a trip to play netball in Dubai.We said she must pay £300 towards it, thinking money for 2 Christmas and birthdays from us and Grandparents, but no she raised it in 3 weeks selling her old toys and Playmobil on eBay with my supervision.If most people don't go and they are in school holidays your child isn't going to miss anything.

ChocolateWombat I think that if the teachers feel they have to use an outside company and therefore charge a lot for the trip than parents would pay if they organised it themselves, it would be better not to offer the trip at all.
I don't feel crap for deciding not to pay £4.5 K for a school trip that DD's school have offered but that is because none of DD's friends are going either. If her friends were going (and most of them could afford this) I would feel under pressure as I know she would feel really really disappointed and left out.

Well, yes,msometimes schools do decide not to offer trips for the exact reason you give Mary. Given the extra amount a of work required (on top of the days of work already that even organising a residential trip abroad without an outside company involves) without a company, the level of risk involved in taking a group of kids that you are responsible into an unknown country and the responsibilities involved, many schools decide they cannot offer such a trip without the support of the outside of the country and sometimes those extra costs make it un feasible and the trip is binned (often after many many hours work before it is binned, but before it is ever presented to parents)
Yes, there are lots of other trips high could be offered and aren't. Usually schools will allow a couple of big, very expensive ones per year, but no more. If they didn't use travel companies, most wouldn't happen. Indeed many schools now have a policy that trips abroad can only occur if booked with a travel company - it is a way to manage risk responsibly, accepting teachers are not experts on all parts of the world and that expert involvement is needed to make trips as safe as possible, which is of course what parents want.

Re the £4.5 trip, I'm glad you don't feel crap about it. Presumably the parents who can pay that and choose to do so,mor just one child are having lavish family holidays or could choose to if they wished. If most of them are doing that, does that make you feel crap? I'd doubt it, so why the difference here. Does your DD feel really disappointed when she hears about the different scale family holidays some of them are having?

TBH, it's not going to become the norm that most friends are going on a £4.5k trip in most schools is it? So actually the chances that your DD would feel everyone else was going and you would feel under pressure because she was disappointed, is extremely unlikely to occur.

If by some chance all my DCs were suddenly going on a £4.5k trip, I would expect that the way they have been brought up, their understanding of money and the way they value themselves (and the way I value myself too) wouldn't result in a sense of being really really disappointed and left out...or me feeling under pressure about it.
I would hope DC would recognise that £4.5 is a huge sum of money and it would be crazy for us as a family to spend it on one holiday for one child. Even if they had a minor hankering for the trip, I would expect it to be minor, because they would actually see it rationally. And if by some bizarre chance that they didn't see it like this, I still wouldn't be allowing myself to feel under pressure.
I wouldn't feel under pressure, because as an adult I know with certainty that £4.5k is beyond us and even if it wasn't I wouldn't spend it on 1 child for 1 trip. I would be confident in that choice and absolutely wouldn't feel DC were being let down by not going or somehow having a lesser childhood. I wouldn't let it make me feel like a crap or second rate parent.....because the, not going wouldn't make me a crap or second rate parent.
And as I said before, I actually think that a lot of the angst parents feel about the hugely expensive trips that few go on is about themselves, not about the kids response. Parents don't like being faced with something they can't provide and somehow it makes them feel inadequate, under pressure and as if they are letting their kids down. Well, it doesn't mean that at all. The amount of money you spend on holidays and trips within school (or on your own family holidays) is by no means a sign of how much you love your kids or how good a parent you are. It's a big lie that many people buy into that - that the amount of money they spend on their kids is a measure of how much they love their kids, or how well they parent.

I totally get why not being able to pay £10 for a trip makes someone feel awful. No child should have to miss out on a curriculum based trip that is £10 and schools tend to make sure that doesn't happen. However, missing out on the £4.5k trip is totally different.....and if as children, but especially parents we lose sight of that as a vast amount of money and that there absolutely is no need to feel under pressure about not going, we have lost perspective on both money and what matters. Re these huge amounts of money for some trips - we should laugh at the amount and move on and teach our children to do it too.

I remember back when I was at school they didn't put hardly any trips on but the ones they did were stupid expensive and only the same kids ever went, the very rich and I don't know how it works now but the families on benefits that (and I'm not saying all kids that come from from families on benefits are like this) were the worst kids/trouble makers in the school used to go on them for free it was as if you were punished for coming from a working standard family and being well behaved, and the worse you were the more you seemed to get rewarded. They were always putting on day trips for those naughty kids who did one thing they were told to do for a change as a reward too, very unfair. We also never had a prom as we were told the year before us were too naughty and so they decided to cancel it the year after with us, weird thing was they put I back on again the year after!

I organised and ran an international trip for my youth group (12-16yo in girl guiding - we are in north america and it was a trip to UK/ Paris). This was undoubtedly an enrichment trip. We are in a semi-rural area. Some of the girls had never been on an aircraft before, and not left the province of their birth. I didn't want anyone to be left out on economic grounds, so we made the decision to fund the trip largely by fundraising - I also applied for any grants and donations that I could.
We spent the first week camping at an international jamboree with 6000 kids from all over the world - this was more people than most of our kids had seen in one place, ever. The gals took part as ambassadors for their country and provided a stand at an international fair, and took part in tons of activities. We then went to Brownsea Island on the ferry and camped where the first scout camp was held, on our own during the tail end of a hurricane storm. And then I took them to stay in central London and we explored a lot of the tourist highlights. We took the train to Paris and did the same thing. The whole trip was based around both cultural activities and the guiding programme, but the main thrust of the trip was the 'horizon-broadening' element. For a 15 day trip to Europe from north america, parents paid between £200/ 400 (one group of girls received an additional donation which offset their costs).
I do believe that international trips can be extremely beneficial for teens - I wouldn't have arranged one if I didn't! But I would like to echo the teacher's comments here. As the responsible adult, I had the health of safety of a gang of assorted teens on my head in an unfamiliar environment. Picking through crowds in central London, I was head-counting every few minutes. When we returned, for a further two weeks I would wake up at night, still head-counting. It was a fantastic trip and the girls had an absolute ball - they now have friends all over the world that they chat to on fb, and have an increased awareness of the literally unending opportunities that the world offers, outside of their small rural community. But it took literally two years of fundraising every weekend, and I had to take two weeks off work unpaid in the school summer holidays to run the trip. I don't want to work out how much the trip cost me in real terms as a volunteer to run.
So just a note so that you don't all hightail it off to youth organizations for cheaper trips! Us volunteers have lives too!

For me one issue with trips at 4.5k is that teachers employed for state education are being asked to organise and staff trips that only the very well off can normally afford! 300 pounds, even 500 pounds, many families with warning can afoord. Birthday and Christmas money over a year can all add up. But massive amounts or very short notice are not on.

It is a waste of important resources. (Teachers) and a hollow brag. Look at us, our kids go to XYZ. No, 3% or fewer probably get to go anywhere like that.

Much better to organise more local UK or Europe trips which more kids' parents can afford, IMHO.

Re the £4.5 trip, I'm glad you don't feel crap about it. Presumably the parents who can pay that and choose to do so,mor just one child are having lavish family holidays or could choose to if they wished. If most of them are doing that, does that make you feel crap? I'd doubt it, so why the difference here. Does your DD feel really disappointed when she hears about the different scale family holidays some of them are having?

Of course she doesn't feel disappointed if a friend is going on a lavish holiday with her own family. That is very different to being in a situation where everyone in a friendship group is going on holiday together except one person. It is not the holiday per se. It is not being able to join in with something all your friends are doing together. Do you not see the difference?

TBH, it's not going to become the norm that most friends are going on a £4.5k trip in most schools is it? So actually the chances that your DD would feel everyone else was going and you would feel under pressure because she was disappointed, is extremely unlikely to occur.

That very much depends on where you live. You seem to assume that everything happens in other schools as it does in your school but sociodemographics can be very different from one area to another. As I said, DD's best friends are a lot better off than us and I don't think that 4.5k would be that much of a stretch for their parents so it isn't extremely unlikely.

And by the way, DD would certainly recognise that we couldn't afford a 4.5k and she certainly wouldn't pressurise us into paying. That doesn't mean I wouldn't feel bad it. That is because I know how disappointed she would be to be left out of something all her best friends were doing together. She wouldn't have to tell me.

If it is the holiday then a state school should not be involved in it at all. If I want my DCs to go on a holiday then I will contact a Travel Agent. I dont expect the school to do it for me just like I dont expect the school to sort out getting my boiler serviced or the dog wormed.

I agree that £4.5k is too much and shouldn't be offered.
I don't know exactly where the line is. Our school offers a trip to the USA for £1.3k and they also do a trip to Tanzania which is over £2k, but I don't think the kids have ever brought anything home above those. Tanzania is certainly educational and most who go are doing Geography, but it's not essential for the curriculum. Skiing is very much a holiday in my opinion, but huge numbers of schools seem to offer that.

I wasn't going to mention my DH working in a school, because his school is pretty unusual, so the situation there doesn't apply to most schools by any means. MY DH works at a top London independent day school with very high fees and very wealthy parents. At his school, there are a number of expensive trips available, but he says he doesn't think any exceed £2.5k and many of the children don't go. As an independent school, and a very affluent one at that, the school is able to offer pretty much what it likes and does offer a huge range of trips and prices. Indeed there is a staff member devoted to liaising with travel companies and doing a lot of the paperwork to save the teachers from doing so much of it. It really is a different world. Some children are on full bursaries and if 100% bursary,mthey are entitled to all essential curriculum trips free of charge. DH seemed to think that these don't tend to exceed 3 or 4 days. So MaryNary, yes I agree that the sociodemographics of areas vary and that will influence how many children go on such trips. I really don't think most children would be going on a £4.5k trip anywhere, even in one of the £35k a year boarding schools, so I'm intrigued to know where you live, where you think it's not extremely unlikely for a child to find they might be the only one of their friendship group not going.

I've visited DHs school and it's noticeable, that whilst many of the parents are wealthy, they don't flash their cash. Some drive very old volvos whilst owning big country piles. Many use the second hand uniform shop, despite being able to afford the nearly £1k uniform. Many are very careful about what they give their children and would balk at very expensive trips. Others do flash the cash and some children go on loads of expensive trips....but according to DH he's never seen any sense of jealousy about that kind of thing. Perhaps those kids who are very privileged know it and whether they are going on a particular school trip or not isn't a big issue. I'd imagine most of them do go on pretty luxurious family holidays, so perhaps the school trips don't count for so much.

Oh well, I think I'm probably done on this thread. MaryNary, you are clearly living in a very rich little enclave if the majority can pay £4.5k for a school trip....that is very unusual.

I think it's an interesting topic. I think schools should offer enrichment and trips. I think curriculum based trips should be funded for those who cannot afford them and that if insufficient children can afford to pay, unfortunately the consequence is simply then that the school can offer very little - what a great shame - not the schools fault, but a symptom of societal inequalities. I think that in most schools, a range of trips costing a range of prices are fine....but it should be made clear when they are non-essential. Schools should bear in mind prices and not let the prices become ridiculous (£4.k comes to mind) should give as much notice as possible for the big ones (2 years seems fair) and encourage fundraising too. And I agree that schools should be continuing to narrow the gap between those who start off with a head start in life and those who have the odds stacked against them - trips and enriching experiences do help do that,mbut cannot and schools cannot on their own create a level playing field.

So MaryNary, yes I agree that the sociodemographics of areas vary and that will influence how many children go on such trips. I really don't think most children would be going on a £4.5k trip anywhere, even in one of the £35k a year boarding schools, so I'm intrigued to know where you live, where you think it's not extremely unlikely for a child to find they might be the only one of their friendship group not going.

I didn't say that most children in the school would be going. I said that all of DD's group of best friends could probably afford to pay if they wanted to and therefore it wasn't extremely unlikely that she could be in a position where she was the only one in her friendship group that wasn't going. I am not going to say exactly where I live. She goes to a grammar so the sociodemographics are probably different to many other schools. However, it is a state school so should be a more inclusive when it comes to trips in my opinion.

I think that it's far more damaging that children grow up expecting that luxury exotic trips abroad are handed to them without any effort on their part and with a sense of entitlement to it - encouraged by the school and permitted by the parents. My dds are at an independent school which offers such lavishly expensive trips all the time, but what shocks me the most is that the school don't encourage the children to contribute to any of the cost. I can personally afford some of these trips no problem, but I won't allow the dd's to go on them unless they appreciate that luxuries in life need to be worked for. I try to get them to contribute something - even a token nominal amount, - not because I can't afford it, but because I don't want them growing up expecting exotic holidays to be handed to them on a plate as this is not how most people live. Why don't more schools encourage the kids to do some fund raising etc, and why don't more of them instill this sort of ethical thinking in kids?

Sorry guys, but I personally think (being an ex teacher/parent myself), so I can see both sides of these so called 'enrichment days'

As far as the kids go, regarding these enrichment days, to places for skiing trips, or anywhere else for that matter, they're a total and utter waste of time.

The kids are allowed to run amok, doing their skiing, whatever. They're even allowed to run amok, getting alcohol, for their constant all night parties, totally unchaperoned. They were told to quieten down, by a not quite so pissed teacher who pulled the short straw, but try that to a group of teenagers away for the first time who are totally pissed. Enough said.

The teachers, btw, also spent much of the time totally enebriated during the small hours, semi enebriated during the day. They get up to pranks that are totally unmentionable on this website. Be warned.

Send your child with a pack of condoms. DEFINITELY. DC may well come back with an unexpected souvenir🙄. 'Enough said....

I feel at least my DC, when they get taken on holiday, get far more enrichment with us in our stable mental states. Even our kids have said so themselves. I don't deprive them of treats such as sipping my glass, or having their own alcohol drink; they're learning about where wine, etc is made, and how, then the results. As a result we have teenagers who can either take it or leave it as regards alcohol. We have managed to visit far more places, than so-called enrichment days where the poor kids are hoarded around like cattle, for long periods of time, and horrendously confusing long queues to get back onto these buses. My DC have never been able to hear a word of anything that's been said as the tour person is totally fed up with rowdy bunches of school kids, day in, day out. The teacher at this point in time is just about standing up, still, but only just. Our kids still love to come on holiday with us; an unknown event in both DC's friendship groups. Mind you, a couple of them have joined us in the past and really enjoyed it! I do give them forewarning though. 'Miss' is not 'miss' on holiday, she's actually got a real name, would you believe! We all do and see some whacky things. We take turns to cook and wash up, each night. With the obligatory wine during the meal of course... Then corny games, or a walk to the local pub...anything but tv. We have everything we want to watch on tv at home. I want to make the most of my DC and extra's.

I think spending any large sum of money for one child, so that the rest of the family end up with a damp squib of a holiday, is totally unfair.

Personally, I'd used that sort of money on a really excellent, well planned and far more enriching holiday with my older children. They recall holidays where I'd splash the contents of the pool onto them (bringing out my inner child), OMG, finding DM swimming in her BIRTHDAY SUIT (face down, of course. Can't mentally scar the DC for life!). Tick - another one off MY very long bucket list! Having copious mocktails, gorgeous food, and so on.

Now we've got to a stage where we'll all have a family holiday in the U.K, which has some extra voom this year. My DP are not in the same place, but a comfortable but not too comfortable distance away. Our DC, definite partner, plus one whom I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting (but I will have an entire week of subversive interrogation with😜). Plus we're going to be drinking a lot more this year! Food swill be kept simple, is rule number one!

Maybe, hopefully, DH and I can enjoy a holiday of our own, in crikey who knows, too! Whoop, wooooooo!

Bonkersmum if that's true it's a child protection issue not an expensive, exclusive school excursion issue.

The excursions I lead and the ones my DDs participate are the antithesis of your post.

Don't judge us all by an exceptionally low standard .