to be pissed off at school 'enrichment' trips

[AugustRose]

I know this has been done many times before but I have just received an email about a 4 day trip to Iceland, costing nearly £1000. During the summer there was a trip to South Africa (it happens every 2/3 years) costing £2500.

This is the second time they have done the Iceland trip and they also have an annual skiing trip which is about £700.

These trips are not inclusive and it's always the same children/families (and teachers) who can afford to go. It's a small secondary of about 600 students but 80% will never be able to go on any of these trips. In Y8 DD1 had a 6 day trip to France that cost us £425 (it was good value) however it took us 6 months to pay for it as I really wanted her to be able to go.

I just get frustrated at the lack of less expensive trips/activities which could include many more children.

sorry to keep hijacking but just to say that the guidance isn't the whole story and Ofsted does hold schools to account for pupil premium spending [https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2016/oct/18/how-should-schools-spend-pupil-premium-funding?CMP=share_btn_tw]

end of hijack

If I can't afford a trip my dd won't go on it. I wouldn't begrudge others of going on it. You can say no to your child !

No they are not jollies they are stressful !

Funnily enough when I worked in a UK state school the trips were like the ones mentioned in the op and eye-wateringly expensive. Now I work abroad in an independent school. Next to no trips and really reasonably priced for those that are run. I wonder how much the insurance is for these trips?

I remember begging my parents to send me on a skiing trip (we weren't rich but not poor either) they said no. I didn't mention it again. 6 months later DM asks when the deposit needs to be paid for the trip, I said I'm not going you and df said no! She was most confused except when I spoke to df (who knew nothing about my previous begging) and said mum said no so I didn't ask again, that's the rule, he laughed! Then said you live and learn I'm sure there was a lesson in there somewhere

I'm dreading these trips coming up, as we won't be able to afford them. Ds's school is going on a day trip to Harry Potter world, which is costing £30. He is going, but it was up for debate, as we felt that was quite expensive for a school day trip.

We used to just go to museums when I was at school. Free to enter, and very educational.

Chocolatewombat is spot on with all her points.
The posts calling them a jolly for teachers just reiterate how clueless most people are about what the job of a teacher entails.
At the end of the day I don't see many other industries where people would offer to work for free in their holidays for 24/7. That is basically what teachers who go on a residential do. It is exhausting, stressful and really bloody hard work. It is NOT a jolly and I completely agree that you get very little thanks from parents for it. When we take a class of 30 away we are lucky if one parent says thank you. It's so upsetting.
I can assure you that any teacher who considers it a jolly is in the minority. I certainly don't know any. The reason why the same teachers often go is because they are the only ones willing to do so. In many schools staff at certain levels are basically forced to go under threat of it being help against them when it comes to things like performance management or simply because they are bullied into it by HT. Believe me the culture of bullying by HTs is rife.

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But frikadela the trips aren't being properly marketed if you're under the impression that they're an essential part of the course. No head of department in their right mind (and no headteacher in their right mind) would plan a compulsory trip as expensive as that.
Also, have you considered in a subject like Geography that is essentially THE STUDY OF THE WORLD, there is almost a necessity to offer some sort of big trip.
The saddest school I worked in wouldn't allow any trips that weren't fully inclusive, so the biggest geography trip was to the local shopping centre and the only other one was a walk around the block to draw the houses. The head wasn't even willing to entertain the idea of fundraising to allow a bigger trip.
Don't we also have a responsibility to inspire our students and get them out of their postcode area?

So, to those who are commenting on their personal experiences, where their children haven't been able to go on trips, expensive or otherwise and where you feel the approach hasn't been helpful, what do you think schools should do about this? Should there be a policy that trips cannot be offered unless all can go and the school will funad anyone who can't pay? This can result in what a PP said about the only trip being a walk round the block. If you don't want this, what do you want instead?
I think I've asked this question about 5 times now.
However, people continue to moan about what is happening....but don't seem to suggest any alternative or to consider what the actual practical implications and results of an alternative approach would be.

In my view, we live in an unfair society. It's endemic and deep rooted and those who are less well off lose out at all levels and in many areas. Schools actually do try to improve and reduce the gap which relative affluence produces .....but schools cannot fully compensate for differences of income. It beyond them as one institution and as individual schools to do that and anyone who thinks that schools alone can fully rectify the inequalities in society are daft in my opinion. Yes, it is their job to be working on that and moving towards better outcomes....and I think they do just that. However, every inequality of opportunity that exists for school children is not the fault of the school - it is because of the wider and much deeper rooted issues of inequality in society. Looking to blame an individual school or headteacher is just too simplistic.

daily mail

*The Iceland trip is part of the geography course, but they only have room for about half the students. And then there's the issue for some people of cost.

I actually went and asked the teacher if the trip would benefit for gcse - and if so, what did that mean for those who couldn't go... he didn't have a good answer*

Said by a pp.

You go on to say that since geography is a study of the world then it's almost a necessity to offer a big trip. So what of the children who can't afford the big trip???

By all means offer the big trips just don't dress them up as being part of the education for a subject. Say it like it is... A fun trip you'll get to do a bit of educational stuff on bit mostly it's for fun.

what do you think schools should do about this?

I can only respond from a non-UK perspective, but I am in broad agreement with the approach in my children's schools

• school trips have an explicit link with the curriculum and the expectation is that all students in the classes concerned will be able to go
• the cost is kept down by using host families, public transport etc
• funding is sought to keep prices down (local authorities, parents association, student fund-raising)
• trips take place in school time and are accompanied by the teachers of the relevant subjects

There will always be cultural or other reasons why some students don't go on trips - my son refused to participate in a Spanish exchange last year - but in a state school funded by taxpayers' money it should never be the case that children are excluded from curriculum-related activities for financial reasons alone.

So, MaryNary do you think the school should only offer the trips you can afford? What about the kids who then watch your kids go on a trip they can't afford? How would it work in practice, unless you want to end up with zero trips, because zero is what some people can actually afford unfortunately. Where exactly would you draw the line? Genuine question.

For the less expensive trips at DDs school the children on free school meals don't pay and I think that others can apply to get financial assistance so I don't think in practice there is a situation where some children can't on any.
I think the line should be drawn at the trips that cost £1,000s because I am sure that some children do feel left out if all their friends go and their parents can't or won't pay.

There is a whole spectrum between trips that 10% or less of the kids can afford, and not having any trips that any pupil can't afford, so saying the expensive trips are inappropriate does not imply that logically there would have to be no trips, as some have implied.
A threshold that 80% can afford it, and the others can be supported thru school fund or pupil premium, for a trip to run, could be a reasonable guide in choosing what kind of trip a school should run?

It is perfectly possible to offer trips that don't cost a fortune, if you avoid using commercial organisations that take a cut, and if you compromise on comfort.

We are in France so admittedly it is easier to get to Italy and Spain, but nevertheless my son's school organised a trip to Ireland last year that cost parents under €250 (£200) per student after taking account of student fund raising and grant money. They travelled by overnight coach and ferry and stayed with host families. My son will be going to Rome and Naples this year and I expect to pay around €250.

My daughter had 10 days in Madrid for €50 (the cost of a return ticket for the overnight Megabus service), but this was part of an exchange so we did have to host a Spanish student in return.

I don't really understand why UK school trips are so expensive tbh. I've sat on the equivalent of the board of governors at my sons' school so I have a good idea of how much it costs to organise a trip and what can be achieved on a (very) tight budget.

The way I think this should be approached is a simple set of steps

1. The school management should look at the price for any proposed trip and if they see that the price will mean that most students wont be able to go on it because of price then the trip should be rejected.

School resources (including teacher goodwill) should not be consumed to the benefit of a small minority of wealthier students.

Any company offering a trip must be made to give a price for the trip before it is allowed to make any presentation to staff or parents.

If the proposed trip passes the first step then it moves onto:

1. Is there enough enriching content to stop the trip being a holiday?

If the answer is 'no' then the school is not a travel agent and should not be putting its name to promoting holidays.

If the answer is 'yes' then the trip can be offered.

Agree with ptarmig and misti.

Lynda teachers should not be forced to help on extra curriculur trips. If parents or children do 't thank teachers maybe the trips are not suitablely appreciated. A good reason to scrap them.

I'd rather teaches efforts went into helping all the kids not an elete few.

Chocolatewombat parents should not be put in the position of having to say No to hugely priced trips. Children go to school to learn not travel the world.

Our school offers trips to Morocco etc! They cost a lot! Why?

If the children cannot be inspired to develop a love of the world, adverture etc withoit trips abroad, then maybe they should just be left as they are!

I have travelled the globe, lived and worked abroad and studied languages. I had two trips in 14 years of school and six firm, one to the isle of Wight aged 12 and one to Greece aged 18 (related to my A level, Classical Civ.), which I paid for myself.

I think the best thing is
To offer trips that are lower cost
To offer some assistance where possible to lower income families
Make all kids fundraise for trips so work and service are linked to travel
Perhaps include an optional 5 or even 7% on trips

The 5 or 7% would be so families who cannot afford to go could go. Eg if the trip is 400 pounds - would people be willing to pay 420 or 28 and the 20 or 28 go into a kitty to help other families to send their kids? All anonimous and under the banner of inclusion.

I would go for that.

Pp money is a joke! My son gets it because he is adopted. In two years he has had one after school class.

I think schools that offer big trips as a kind of show off, look where our pupils go! But the vast majority will not go there!

For the record teachers who help on trips are amazing I helped on one trip to a museum, it was exhausting, worrying until they were all safely home again! I think it goes with the territory but obviously going to Morroco is going to be more worrisome than Isle of Wight!

I helped as a parent, not a teacher.

Greyhound, absolutely agree about the surcharge to help families who really can't afford it... Thunder's daughter could have joined her classmates on the trip to Germany rather than being the only one not going.

EssentialHummas, you are right, but don't you think, having lived here in SA, that is a good thing that Western children can see, with their own eyes how children live and are educated, in very deprived parts of the world? And help them see how much children here value education, when our children can take it soo much for granted.

Is it term or holiday time? If it's holiday time, YABU and having done foreign trips annually for a long time, believe me, it's no jolly! More like on duty 24/7 patrolling, dealing with hysterical home sick children, one with a broken leg, a broken nose, it's not a jolly when I go! It's damned hard work. I'm doing one in February half term, for the children's benefit, not mine. I loved there so I'm not bothered about going but it's expected and I know I'll be shattered after a week of looking after 30 excited children!

Meant to say, children on free school meals get 50% paid and if you aren't on free school melts, you apply to the governors who generally sub the trip. It is about being inclusive.

I never took letters home for expensive holiday type trips, even as a teen and preteen it seemed a lot to be spent just on me. I knew my parents would find the money, and we probably could have afforded it, but it didn't seem fair and I didn't want to put them in that position

I think there should be multiple trips at the same time, all with a different price bracket, so that kids can all get excited about something. Some abroad, some in UK, some just bowling etc. I don't think the expensive trips should be stopped buy alternatives should be offered

Oh and £30 for Harry Potter world, it can be a lot depending on your budget and before Xmas isn't an ideal time to be asking for money (although it could be an early Xmas present for some people), but I think you got a bargain there!

don't you think, having lived here in SA, that is a good thing that Western children can see, with their own eyes how children live and are educated, in very deprived parts of the world? And help them see how much children here value education, when our children can take it soo much for granted.

carrie if it had that effect I think I'd agree, but I don't think a week or two seeing how children live in Alexandra is going to have a long-term impact on how a British (or for that matter, wealthy Saffa) teen sees their place in the world and how lucky they are to have food and access to education and healthcare.

I'll be trying to engender that in my kids by ensuring that from a young age they interact with lots of different people in different activities and contexts - I hope it works, and that they don't think that everyone drives a Beemer and skies.

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it now, but I was 18 and a month into my degree at Wits before I consciously realised that not everyone came from the same background as me - a girl sitting behind me asked if she could have the apple I had in my bag, because she was hungry. I just about managed to engage my brain before asking why she didn't just go to the tuck shop. This was after 14 years of living in Johannesburg.

*skis.