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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be pissed off at school 'enrichment' trips

205 replies

AugustRose · 24/11/2016 15:41

I know this has been done many times before but I have just received an email about a 4 day trip to Iceland, costing nearly £1000. During the summer there was a trip to South Africa (it happens every 2/3 years) costing £2500.

This is the second time they have done the Iceland trip and they also have an annual skiing trip which is about £700.

These trips are not inclusive and it's always the same children/families (and teachers) who can afford to go. It's a small secondary of about 600 students but 80% will never be able to go on any of these trips. In Y8 DD1 had a 6 day trip to France that cost us £425 (it was good value) however it took us 6 months to pay for it as I really wanted her to be able to go.

I just get frustrated at the lack of less expensive trips/activities which could include many more children.

OP posts:
Titsalinabumsquash · 25/11/2016 10:48

The school DS attends is good in this respect, they've put up the enrolment for the £1.2k skiing trip (DS luckily didn't want to go) but they also have some smaller more affordable trips up, £56 for a day in France, theme park trips for students maligning targets for positive behaviour points, £70 for another day trip to France for a Christmas market tour and there is a week long tourist residential trip next year which it £300 all inclusive but financial help is available as they try and get all yr 7 students to attend.

AugustRose · 25/11/2016 12:44

ooh lots of comments to read this morning.

The SA trip was i think 2 1/2 weeks - part in school time/part out. They do some local trips but not many. This is a list of the ones I know about/can remember during DDs time there (she is year 10 now)

Annual skiing trip each March to France £795
Iceland trip every 18 months £1000
SA every 2/3 years £2500
Annual 3/4 day A-level Art trip to Amsterdam or Venice £450
Annual Year 8 trip to France £450+
Annual Year 11 Dutch exchange visit £325+

Local ones are:
Year 7 - 2 day trip to get to know new friends £75
GCSE Art weekend £150+
Physics observatory trip 2/3 days £100+
Any other local/regional trips between £15-80

There will be more for other subjects but I can't remember them all.

Like I say, it's not that they shouldn't be offered, it's the increasing number that are being offered. And, if the subject related trips are to help students with their studies, how do they help those who cannot attend.

My younger DD attends Brownies and will go into Guides soon, thankfully they have subsidised trips as even the primary trips are over £250 now. As an example she could go on a school trip for £250 (3 nights at a local outdoor place, 4 activities with instructors) but she went with Brownies for £95 (2 nights at a PGL, 4 activities with instructors) there was no comparison.

OP posts:
OldRosesDoomed · 25/11/2016 14:11

I don't really get your point. Are you saying trips should be state funded or not provided. I think your list offers lots of variety.

Children are expensive.

TeddingtonHeights · 25/11/2016 14:28

I think part of it comes down to how the school deals with it. My daughters school has a ‘big’ trip every year along with small day trips. The day trips are quite excessive though: three trips per year, per subject, and it is strongly recommended that all students go on these. But they are more affordable and definitely educational. The year 10 trips for this term are between £15 and £50 and are:

English – Theatre (Shakespeare)
Maths – Maths Workshop
Science – Planetarium
Textiles – The Clothes Show
Art – Banksy tour and workshop
Religious Studies – London (Salvation Army HQ)
History – Prison Tour & Workshop

My daughters goes to a rural state school. Before applying we were warned that it was expensive to attend the school e.g. uniform three times more expensive than other local schools, compulsory donations to project work etc. We were given a list of expected trips for the whole five years with expected costs. It was explained that students do not have to attend and actually they keep the numbers low, so that students don’t feel too left out. Most students only go on one of the trips and a large number don’t go on any. All trips are in the holidays, at most they miss one day of school.

Year 7 – PGL - £500
Year 8 – Sorrento - £1500
Year 9 – Morocco - £1500
Year 10 – New York - £2500
Year 11 – India - £2500

They also do Skiing (£1000) and World Challenge for years 10 and 11 and France if doing French and Germany if doing German.

My daughter went to PGL and Sorrento and will be doing skiing this year and next year and India. I personally think these are invaluable experiences that we perhaps cannot give her. Some of her friends are doing all the trips and some will do none.

We are not particularly well off but as we see this as important, we budget accordingly. We were paying a lot more than this for nursery, so it is doable.

AugustRose · 25/11/2016 14:50

Are you saying trips should be state funded or not provided No I'm not saying this. I am saying that the school do not offer alternatives or lower cost trips to 'enrich' the education of the 80% of families in the school who cannot afford them. Those who will struggle with even a few hundred pounds, and there are many.

We are not particularly well off but as we see this as important No offense Teddington but that is over £6000, we struggled with £425 so to me you must have a fair bit of spare income. We could never afford anything like that amount.

Just to confirm my point again, I agree it's good for some trips to be offered but I would also like there to be alternatives for the other students.

OP posts:
YellowBlueBus · 25/11/2016 14:50

Thunder Your poor girl.

NZD 7000 for a school trip???

It's an outrage.

Marynary · 25/11/2016 15:13

Although I personally don't feel under pressure as DD's friend's parents seem to be of a similar mind when it comes to very expensive trips (they won't pay for them either), I can imagine it is pretty upsetting for some children if their friends are always going away on expensive trips abroad if they can't. They must feel really left out.
The total cost of all trips on Teddington's list is ridiculous and even though we earn reasonable incomes, I prefer to "budget" for things such as future university costs (we can't afford both).

TeddingtonHeights · 25/11/2016 15:17

Sorry, just read that back and it doesn't sound good. We do have spare income that a lot of others don't have. however, we have different spending habits than other people with similar income. One of the reasons we chose this particular school was for the opportunities it could offer.

My examples were to show that some schools do have a lot of the cheaper trips as well and they pre-warned us with a five year plan. My children do not get everything, even if we can afford it and they are very well aware that everyone has different incomes and needs etc.

Sadik · 25/11/2016 15:18

" Before applying we were warned that it was expensive to attend the school e.g. uniform three times more expensive than other local schools, compulsory donations to project work etc."
I thought state schools were no longer allowed to do this as it's generally used as a way to manage their intake . . .?

Your list of Yr 10 trips (Shakespeare, Banksy etc) sounds entirely educationally relevant and not overly expensive. I'd also expect for that kind of trip the school would have a way of supporting those who genuinely can't pay.

ChocolateWombat · 25/11/2016 15:36

The thing is that, alongside the very few extortionate trips, most schools DO offer lots of much cheaper, affordable trips too. So they are offering enrichment opportunities for all.

The fact that very few go on those big expensive trips, is actually fine. The vast majority don't go, and as such won't be left with a sense that they are hard done by, because MOST people don't go. They are by nature minority acitivities. I don't think it is wrong for the school to offer them or that they should restrict their offer to what absolutely everyone will go on.....there is a recognise ton in the offer that some people will go on some trips, others on others and some will attend more than others, in the same way some attend more extra curricular activities than others.

Most schools don't allow individual Deprtments to offer more than one trip to each year group,more academic year, to prevent timetable disruption. They usually make it clear what is essential and what is an extra, and will fund people who can't afford the essential trips.......however, that only works when the majority will pay, so few have be funded by the school. In schools where so few parents can afford to pay or are not willing to pay, few trips occur, because understandably the school can't afford to fund them. It's a real shame, especially when parents could fund them but refuse to.

And regarding whether enrichment is needed - well, it depends.
Some children get very little enrichment or wider life experiences from home. School trips give them a chance to widen their horizons, which they wouldn't be able to otherwise. Yes, those kids won't be going on the £2500 trip, but the day trips to museums and the trip to London or other big cities which they might not have visited are valuable and education is about more than you can learn in books.
Some children have been everywhere and had every experience going. For them, enrichment might not be so vital,malt bough they will enjoy it and gain 'soft' skills from being on trips, as well as subject knowledge.
Most subjects feel that learning comes alive in a way that doesn't happen when all the time is spent in school. Enrichment does.....enrich. However, it costs, and with all the funding cuts, schools simply can't pay.

So the question is, is the enrichment offered value for money for parents? I would say that the day trips which schools offer often do add a lot to a child's experience, both in terms of curriculum, cultural capital and social learning. I would say, that unless parents really cannot afford those trips (and I know some really can't) then it is worth paying for them and even making some sacrifices for them. We are not in a country which can afford to not only provide full time education free at the point of contact to all children, but also pay for the widening experiences that make education so much richer. So I think that Parents have to accept that the whole thing cannot be totally free and they will have to contribute towards these extra activities. There's a lot of moaning about these kind of things.

I've heard people moan about being asked for £10 towards a term of swimming lessons, for £7.50 for the Bikeability course, for £10 for a theatre visit. Yes, it all adds up. However, I don't think those parents who moan think that the individual activities cost too much (all those above are very good value for what is being received) or that they don't think their children would benefit from them......they moan because they think that the state should be paying for everything.

At the end of the day, the choice is, pay up for the enriching experiences, or miss out on the enrichment. If too many parents refuse to pay, or cannot pay, then they won't be offered....and most children's education will be the poorer and narrower for it.

TeddingtonHeights · 25/11/2016 15:36

Sadik - yes, I do suspect it is used as a way to manage their intake. I am not sure if it's allowed or not. And yes the year 10 trips are educational and reasonably priced. Those on pupil premium do get financial help. My point was that the big trips are extra's, and if someone is unable to afford a big trip, there are plenty of smaller ones throughout the year.

Petronius16 · 25/11/2016 16:40

Jollies for teachers - yup.

Our son rages about them.

TheOnlyColditz · 25/11/2016 16:42

Our school runs a trip to Sierra Leone for (wait for it) £4500

It's a state secondary in a roughish area. About three kids go.

BG2015 · 25/11/2016 16:43

My son went to Paris this year, Normandy last year. My other son went to Berlin earlier in the year too.

It's very expensive. I'm a single mum and my ex does go halves but it's still an extra expense I have to budget for.

My son wants to go to Italy skiing in April but it's £800 plus spends and all the ski clothes he needs. I've said no.

He is also on the waiting list for Iceland in 2018, I'm hoping no one drops out! It's £1000.

August I wonder if your kids go to the same school as mine?

CoolCarrie · 25/11/2016 16:44

YANBU it is outrageous that some children are being discrimated.

And BTW going to help out & bringing gifts to South African schools is not a dud, and whoever posted that comment has got a cheek!
Do you have any idea how poor the children are here? Even pencils & note books are like gold here! Most of you don't have a clue what it is like to live in such a desperately poor place, no proper school books, awful toilets, teachers who abuse their pupils, children who walk miles to get an education, just to be able to read & write is a precious skill for some many kids here.

ChocolateWombat · 25/11/2016 16:45

Jollies for teachers. Yes, most teachers love to spend their half term week on duty 24 hours a day, supervising a load of teenagers......they couldn't imagine a better way to spend a week. Lucky bastards....getting a free holiday, for absolutely nothing!

Teachers give up their time to go on these enrichment trips, because they believe they really benefit the students. Because they do, lots of kids get to see and do things they might not otherwise see and do. Luckily they are willing to, because it often means that us as parents don't have to do it or pay for a whole family to do it.

CoolCarrie · 25/11/2016 16:48

So having children visit here will certainly be an eye opener to pupils fromthe West and maybe will make them appreciate their own school lives more.
It isn't a jolly, it should be an life changing experience to see how lucky they are to live in first world countries.

SunnySomer · 25/11/2016 16:52

ChocolateWombat I agree.
In fact these expensive trips have been around for donkeys years - when I was at secondary school (early 80s) there was an annual ski trip and an annual cruise. The children who went on the cruise were invariably farmers' children whose families absolutely couldn't take a break during the summer but didn't want their children to miss out on the opportunities that the children whose parents could take leave would have.

specialsubject · 25/11/2016 16:52

surely it would make more sense to send money and gifts to the south African school, rather than spending a fortune flying British kids over?

then spend a few lessons reminding them how lucky they are, with free education that they don't get shot for attending, and hence why it is a good idea not to dick about.

EssentialHummus · 25/11/2016 16:58

carrie, no doubt, but having moved from JHB to London I've stopped agreeing with that line of thinking as a reason to support these kinds of things.

There are substantial levels of deprivation in the UK - if you want to take children on a poverty safari/to see that there are those worse off than them/to build a culture of helping the poor*, you can do it within 20 miles of most schools.

Separately, if you particularly want to help a village in rural Kwa-Zulu Natal or wherever, the £2500 x 10 (?) in fees that parents are stumping will go a hell of a lot further if it's passed directly on to a reputable charity that can apply the funds effectively, without pretending that a group of teens on a one-week trip out there will make a jot of difference. And without lining the pockets of a tour operator.

The only purposes these things serve, imo, is to highlight inequality within the schools that offer them, generate angst among parents who are being fed the line that this is a must-have educational opportunity, and offer lovely photos for the school album or brochure.

*Which this kind of thing does not do in the slightest

EssentialHummus · 25/11/2016 17:00

BTW, my old (private, Johannesburg) school sends its own pupils on regular sports tours etc through the country, which include village trips and other activities. The cost is £100 for the week all in. I appreciate that flights from the UK are dear, but £2,500??

LisaC7 · 25/11/2016 17:03

I agree with Bagina.
Basically sounds like a self serving trip for the more affluent few.

headinhands · 25/11/2016 17:09

A lot of this is just the reality of life I guess. It's not as if everyone where I work has roughly the same access to leisure activities, goods and services etc. Some people come to work in a 2016 Merc, some get a bus. Some holiday in St Lucia for 2 weeks, some can't afford a holiday. That said the school should have a spread to cater for all parents/carers ability to pay.

Badcat666 · 25/11/2016 17:19

Bloody hell... all I had at school was a camping trip to Wales for a week (which was brilliant! Lots of rummaging in woods and streams and visiting historical buildings and climbing Snowdonia) and my brother went to Italy for a week to look at old buildings etc!

They did try a "ski trip" once and were laughed at so much by the parents due to the cost and the constant "How is that going to help my child with their english/ maths/ biology" they gave up.

God I feel old now...

Butkin1 · 25/11/2016 17:24

DD's school offers lots of trips - both within Britain and well beyond. We soon realised we should pick not only just the trips we can easily afford but the ones that are tailored to the subjects she is taking.

Therefore we've said no to skiing and Japan but yes to Venice (museums, art galleries, cooking school).

I don't even worry about her not going to Japan - just pleased that she's looking forward to Venice..

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