Would this reference put you off

[Justbobbin]

Got a reference back for a young woman I interviewed. I'm fairly new into Management but have always taken on people I already knew.

She was in her late 20s, first professional interview, she was very every nervous when answering the questions but didn't seem at least nervous during small
Talk before it after the interview.

We told her she had been unsuccessful two weeks ago and she was lovely on the phone,saying she was disappointed but understood as she was very nervous.

Anyway i by coincidence find myself speaking to her old manager who said he was surprised she didn't so well in the interview as as was very out-goi f in day to day work. He said she was very honest and genuine and she was very positive. He said she would be a bit too honest at times and would give her opinion on everything including people which other then repeated and caused those ah edits had talked about to dislike her. But she learned towards the end of the placement to just not give her opinion put loud and keep them in her head.

He said she was extremely calm and empathetic during times of conflict and had a warm and friendly personality.

He said sometimes she spoke too much about her private life and got quite drunk at her leaving party.

He said she was amusingly unconventional.

I'm really worried about the getting drunk,gossiping and the too much talking.

But she was very graceful in the interview and seemed really sweet not a ladette!

What would you take from this reference?

I ask because I liked her at interview and it wasn't me who chose not to employ her but the other two staff members interviewing.

I have another position become available and I'd like to offer he really it.

All sounds very unprofessional to me - presumably she applied to you in confidence, not for you to talk about her with her ex boss, who may not have known she applied.

And it's really not uncommon to bump into someone else in the same line of work at a conference and for people to be a bit gossipy. The manager didn't sound malicious, and was giving his opinion.

Yes, this used to be very common. This sort of informal reference seeking is open to abuse by malicious people. It also means talent is overlooked in favour of people who went to the right school or can ask daddy to "put a word in". Which is exactly why it now is gross misconduct in many workplaces.

Is this some sort of reverse, OP?

Wow the OP is having such a hard time here, she didn't formally ask for references because she didn't offer the candidate the job, she didn't contact the manager to ask the candidate, she was talking to that person by coincidence and mentioned the candidate. Completely normal behaviour!

People suggesting that she is being unprofessional by asking the question on here, well she wont in future after the pasting she got on here will she!

OP as I said up thread my main concern with the candidate was why did she leave previous job? people don't normally just resign, have a leaving party etc without a job to go to unless there are issues.

Mistletoetastic it is pretty bad though, isn't it?

Gossiping on the phone with a very funny lighthearted boss about an ex-candidate's conduct at a party and when the answer is not what she wanted, put it to a jury on Mumsnet?? I'd be horrified if I lost or gained an opportunity this way.

Wth?! If someone spoke about me like that I'd be mortified! Shit. Yes if I did a good report I would say it was good...why the hell wouldn't I?! You all sound like a bunch of gossipers. Get a life seriously

A million times this! I'm even more worried about going back into the workplace after reading all this, do companies want androids or real life people who have actual personalities and, god forbid, the odd quirk or two

OP - is it possible to have a thread pulled by MN admin? What you have done constitutes gross misconduct and both you, and her previous boss, could get fired for it if you are identified. Please use this as a learning exercise - you are only legally allowed to ask for a reference after the job has been offered, or before decisions are made if the candidate agrees. Asking after a rejection has occurred is illegal and a breach of employee confidentiality. You are leaving yourself, and her previous boss, open to all sorts of disciplinary issues.

For what it's worth I had too much to drink at my work leaving lunch and I rarely drink otherwise so I don't think you can hold that against her. And you've been gossiping about her (and not very professional of her ex-manager imo) so I don't think you can mark her down on that either. She sounds fine otherwise (well actually she just sounds fine full stop) so if you want to employ her just do it.

PrinceMortificado I don't think that its pretty bad at all, I think that its real life. It wasn't a formal reference request, it was a chat.

I would invite her in for an interview if your colleagues agree and try to get her to answer questions that would indicate her personality and aptitude. If she does well get written references.

She's put it to a jury on a chat forum. A chat forum with a million members. MN threads frequently end up in the Daily Mail. This one would be an excellent example of how networking can work against the candidate for a lazy journalist for instance.

This sort of informal reference seeking is open to abuse by malicious people. It also means talent is overlooked in favour of people who went to the right school or can ask daddy to "put a word in". Which is exactly why it now is gross misconduct in many workplaces.

But it's not a reference at all - she'd already been rejected for the job and it's not at all clear that there was a prospect of another post at the time if the conversation. (OP misnamed the thread). At which point it's just two people discussing a mutual acquaintance.

I find it hard to believe that that's classed as gross misconduct in many places, and if it is, it's very open to challenge by any sacked employees.

YABU! You were unreasonable to speak so unprofessionally about this poor girl. You did not ask for a reference, you stated that you did not offer her the job so did not take up the referees she provided.
I would not want to work for you, you are completely unprofessional. And that's before you decided to post this on Mumsnet. Jesus!

Gossiping about a colleague or contact is NOT the same as approaching someone deliberately to gossip about a potential candidate about whom you have no right to ask a reference

Totally agree. But according to OP, by coincidence find myself speaking to her old manager who said...

So it's gossiping about a contact, rather than approaching someone deliberately etc etc. I don't think it was ideal either, but it's far from the hanging offence it's being made out to be.

Elizabeth she solicits ted a conversation to discuss the candidate's work-related performance, the outcome of which conversation is influencing the candidate's job prospects. That is NOT two people discussing a mutual acquaintance.

OP was planning to use it as a reference, to inform her decision on hiring this woman. At my workplace (big RG group university), the rules about this are very clear. It is gross misconduct. Going on a 1 mio member internet platform about it would seal her fate.

This thread needs to get pulled before it hits the Daily Mail.

How many of those posters condemning OP as unprofessional and gossipy haves never gossiped about any colleague or work contact?!

Can you not tell the difference between that, and what the OP has done?

I can tell a huge difference between that and what people are assuming (ie that she took the initiative to call the former boss, and get a reference). But that's not what OP said happened.

She says that by coincidence she found herself chatting to him, and he brought up the subject of this woman and made some comments, some time after she'd already been rejected for the job.

Can you not tell the difference between what the OP says happened, and what various posters are accusing her of?

Now, putting it on Mumsnet with that much detail is a different point, but that doesn't make it reasonable for anyone to criticise her for things she hasn't done!

OP asked for a reference and was told the referees opinion of the candidates behaviour, nothing about her work.
With some boundaries in place she might come good. It depends on the role.

Fenella, it doesn't sound like she solicited a conversation. It sounds like either they ended up chatting for some other reason, or possibly he engineered an opportunity. But OP strongly implies she didn't solicit a conversation.

Prince. Not sure what Russel Group has to do with it, other than if you feel it's something to brag about. Neither am I sure anyone could be fired for what they were planning!

Agreed, she'd have been wrong to make decisions on the basis of hearsay and gossip, and the ideal next step would have been to admit to co-interviewers that she'd been told information in an unofficial capacity, and shouldn't make a final decision on that final candidate in case it affected her judgement. Doesn't sound like she was planning that, but let's not condemn people for the wrong offence.

Putting it on here with so much information would be gross misconduct in lots of jobs, I agree. My point wasn't so much to blanket defend the OP has to defend her from some of the more extreme claims about things she doesn't claim to have even done.

I'm starting to feel sorry for this girl. She doesn't sound like someone I'd get on with personally but I don't think getting drunk at a leaving do should really matter. Echoing pp I don't see why you are posting here, yourself and her ex-boss sound unprofessional. It really grates me how some managers act in general- some think they can say/act whatever they like about employees with no professionalism whatsoever or no repercussions (might be projecting here).

It wasn't a brag, Elizabeth. It was meant as an indication of the kind of employer. Public service, education, large, old school... Smaller workplaces, more modern ones, businesses or social sector places may or may not handle it differently.

Her boss sounds rather unprofessional . Agree you shouldn't consider that conversation a reference. I'd contact her and asked her to apply for the new position with a view to reinterviewing. You could then request a formal reference. She may already have found another job.

Ok fair enough Prince :)

I didn't know ladettes still existed. I thought they were only off of the 90's.