Would this reference put you off

[Justbobbin]

Got a reference back for a young woman I interviewed. I'm fairly new into Management but have always taken on people I already knew.

She was in her late 20s, first professional interview, she was very every nervous when answering the questions but didn't seem at least nervous during small
Talk before it after the interview.

We told her she had been unsuccessful two weeks ago and she was lovely on the phone,saying she was disappointed but understood as she was very nervous.

Anyway i by coincidence find myself speaking to her old manager who said he was surprised she didn't so well in the interview as as was very out-goi f in day to day work. He said she was very honest and genuine and she was very positive. He said she would be a bit too honest at times and would give her opinion on everything including people which other then repeated and caused those ah edits had talked about to dislike her. But she learned towards the end of the placement to just not give her opinion put loud and keep them in her head.

He said she was extremely calm and empathetic during times of conflict and had a warm and friendly personality.

He said sometimes she spoke too much about her private life and got quite drunk at her leaving party.

He said she was amusingly unconventional.

I'm really worried about the getting drunk,gossiping and the too much talking.

But she was very graceful in the interview and seemed really sweet not a ladette!

What would you take from this reference?

I ask because I liked her at interview and it wasn't me who chose not to employ her but the other two staff members interviewing.

I have another position become available and I'd like to offer he really it.

What would worry me more is that she left her job before getting another? What were her reasons for leaving last job?

Leaving aside good form and the old boss, for me the most important considerations would be the reasons why the other two interviewers didn't want to proceed with this candidate?

If you rejected her, why on earth were you ringing her old boss? Surely you just tell her "thanks, but no thanks" and leave it at that. You had no reason to ring him AT ALL.

If you wanted to re-interview her, then all you had to do was ring her and ask her back in, then ask for an official written reference, not have a gossipy phone conversation!

OP, regardless of anything else, you shouldn't have put this on Mumsnet. Thousands of people read this site. The Daily Mail, as you must know, regularly takes stories from MN, making them available to a readership of millions. There is a possibility, perhaps a small one, but a possibility nonetheless, that the woman in question will read what you've written and recognise herself. If I were you, I'd ask MN to remove your post.

to be honest I worry more about your professionalism than hers.

"The OP has some concerns about privacy and so we are removing the thread"

I'm off to work now, and look, I've saved HQ the deletion message!

You are totally unprofessional OP. You didn't give her the job but you called her manager for a chat anyway? Really poor behaviour. And getting drunk on a leaving do is totally irrelevant to how someone performs at work. I think you may need a management training course if you find this acceptable.

Where I'm from, talking to a candidate's employer/former employer without their prior permission, and about issues not directly related to their employment, is illegal (privacy legislation).

I hope she doesn't find out you've done so.

She's only starting out, don't hire her and let her find a more professional manager who doesn't partake in idle gossip and resort to Mumsnet for professional advice.

In all my years in senior management roles I have never conducted a reference conversation in this way, highly unprofessional.

I think you need to have some training in how to recruit future employees. Frankly her old manager does too.

Surely this is against all recruiting rules? You aren't entitled to get any information about her after you have rejected her.

IMO your recruiting skills need improvement, OP. If the candidate wasn't right for your organisation the first time round then you should not be inviting her to apply for another position. It does not serve you or the candidate well, which I think you would learn when you gain more experience.

I also think she has dodged a bullet with you.

your recruiting skills need improvement, OP. If the candidate wasn't right for your organisation the first time round then you should not be inviting her to apply for another position

I don't agree with this. People can be suitable for one position and not another one. I had a role a few years ago where I had originally applied for a different role with the same organisation.

However, I don't like the gossiping here and also think it's unprofessional on both sides.

People can be suitable for one position and not another one.

Accepted, but it seems in this case only one position was on offer at the time and the candidate was not recruited.

You weren't entitled to ask for a reference, having rejected her and not yet offered her the new job, and you didn't get one - you got hearsay and gossip.

The way you have gone about this is very, very unprofessional.

My last boss did such over-the-phone destruction of people. She did it because she was vindictive and passive aggressive. On the phone, there is no record. She was most put out when the place banned phone references. Many workplaces no longer allow them for this reason.

I left without mentioning her name on my CV. Found a lovely job and worried for the first few months about a poisonous, career- destroying phone call.

Don't listen to gossip, that's all it was.

So unprofessional OP. That's not a reference at all it's gossip. You're worried about her professionalism when what you have done would be counted as gross misconduct where I work.

You sound very unprofessional OP. How qualified are YOU. I think you need to go on a management course so that you don't come on to a forum like this to ask such questions.

New to management? No shit.

You only recruit "people you know". Any company worth it's sort will have recruitment policies ensuring you treat all candidates equally.

You make recruitment decisions not on formal, fair procedures but based on gossip and heresay.

You go on the internet to discuss candidates and have no regard for professional respect or confidentiality.

I hope the poor woman finds a decent company and manager to work for, because you sound dreadful. If I applied for a job and found out the person making the decisions acted like you, I'd be straight onto senior management and HR and requesting they give you a fucking reality check.

There are a few posts on here which make me wonder if the people posting have much experience of work.

Yes, in many industries and professions it's standard to only ask for references after a conditional job offer has been made. In those industries it's common for candidates to keep the process from their current employers until a conditional offer has been made.

And it's really not uncommon to bump into someone else in the same line of work at a conference and for people to be a bit gossipy. The manager didn't sound malicious, and was giving his opinion.

No, I wouldn't like to be talked about like that, but it happens. I firmly believe that gossiping is wrong, but I can't pretend I've been 100% innocent of it, and most people don't even think it's that big a deal... unless they're the subject. How many of those posters condemning OP as unprofessional and gossipy haves never gossiped about any colleague or work contact?!

How many of those posters condemning OP as unprofessional and gossipy haves never gossiped about any colleague or work contact?!

Can you not tell the difference between that, and what the OP has done?

I'd give her a chance.

Well, I'd take it as a sign that her old boss had zero professionalism, for a start! As PPs have said, that's not a reference. It's gossip. I would get her back in to interview for the other role.

+1

I got drunk at my own promotion drinks a few weeks ago. These things happen sometimes.

Sad this turned into a pretty aggressive mass-attack on the OP. There are ways of saying you disapprove (which many posters have employed) without it turning nasty.

I agree with you Elizabeth.

Gossiping about a colleague or contact is NOT the same as approaching someone deliberately to gossip about a potential candidate about whom you have no right to ask a reference.