Would this reference put you off

[Justbobbin]

Got a reference back for a young woman I interviewed. I'm fairly new into Management but have always taken on people I already knew.

She was in her late 20s, first professional interview, she was very every nervous when answering the questions but didn't seem at least nervous during small
Talk before it after the interview.

We told her she had been unsuccessful two weeks ago and she was lovely on the phone,saying she was disappointed but understood as she was very nervous.

Anyway i by coincidence find myself speaking to her old manager who said he was surprised she didn't so well in the interview as as was very out-goi f in day to day work. He said she was very honest and genuine and she was very positive. He said she would be a bit too honest at times and would give her opinion on everything including people which other then repeated and caused those ah edits had talked about to dislike her. But she learned towards the end of the placement to just not give her opinion put loud and keep them in her head.

He said she was extremely calm and empathetic during times of conflict and had a warm and friendly personality.

He said sometimes she spoke too much about her private life and got quite drunk at her leaving party.

He said she was amusingly unconventional.

I'm really worried about the getting drunk,gossiping and the too much talking.

But she was very graceful in the interview and seemed really sweet not a ladette!

What would you take from this reference?

I ask because I liked her at interview and it wasn't me who chose not to employ her but the other two staff members interviewing.

I have another position become available and I'd like to offer he really it.

If she's qualified and capable there's nothing in that "reference" that would put me off.

Actually I rather like the sound of her. But that's probably because I feel I was probably a lot like that in my 20s could work well with someone like her. Could you?

we never asked for an official reference. At the time we didn't consider it necessary as she hadn't not been offered a job.

I asked him for this thoughts on her as I wanted to give her an opportunity we had.

To be fair that team she was in has a very funny lighthearted boss and there are a lot of young people working there who talk about their Sex life, drunken antics etc. Her previous boss said she wa professional at all times and was very careful not to gossip or cause conflict. I think she's been badly influenced to be honest.

Aaargh. She sounds like me! I get hideously nervous to the point of throwing up (once), even though in day to day life I am calm and confident and speak to people from all walks of life, Board members to call centre staff. I also have learned to stop gossiping so much and learning to be diplomatic. It's the things no one teaches you. Although calling my boss an old perv with no management skills at the Christmas party was possibly a bit much...

Invite her to interview, don't just offer her the job outright, if you think you can effectively manage her. She sounds like she will need a firmer and more direct manager who lays out what is expected from her and can pull her up on her behaviour if necessary.

Kind of related: I once came across an email between senior management bitching about me and the work I do, how I should be doing xyz and maybe they should just fire me. No one, at any point, had thought to speak to me to ask why I wasn't doing xyz. The answer is that I didn't know I had to. It was not in my job description and I didn't have the experience to know it was expected of me. It's difficult navigating work when you're young and inexperienced and I think it's wonderful that you're thinking of giving her another chance.

Not sure what I think of the woman applying for jobs but I don't think much of her ex manager at all. That's not a fair, professional reference, it's unofficial and gossipy and unfair.

is this what references are like?
I'd be mortified if anyone spoke like that about me, not least of all my manager in a professional capacity!

So you were gossiping to an ex boss of hers who hadn't been asked for a formal reference.......

I think you need to be very careful as someone new to management. You are teeetering on the brink of being unprofessional and it could come back to bite you.

If you want to invite her back to interview for another post then do so. But you just can't be influenced by gossip.

I think she's been badly influenced to be honest.

I think she's dodged a bullet to be honest.

How many bosses have you spoken to?

How was this "casual" conversation/reference conducted? Did you ring them up or meet him in Asda or what?

You can't do that, really. Any of it.

She was interviewed, rejected and informed.

That should be where it ends.

You have a vacancy, you advertise it. If she wants to apply, she does. You take up a written reference, and interview if you see fit.

The "taking on people I already know" is so going to bite you on the bum!

No one is perfect, if she is good at what she does, turns up on time regularly then you would be unreasonable to put so much emphasis on a few personality traits.

I am good at my job, recognised as being so, but I don't suffer fools and have difficulty keeping it in check sometimes. I know my flaws and try my best, but that is me. I am still very employable and highly thought of in the workplace even though I can't stand incompetence or lower standards than my own from people I work with

If you can't get pissed at your leaving party I don't know what the world is coming to tbh! It's not like she was stumbling round drunk at work! The comments about not knowing when to hold back and not give her opinion would put me off though.

Does your boss know that you are doing this?

I actually think this is terrible behaviour by you and her ex boss. It's really wrong for him to give you a whole load of gossipy info about a potential candidate, which might then wreck that person's chance of getting another job. I bet he wouldn't do this to a young man, he'd feel much more of a mentoring, career-development responsibility.

She's still quite young and inexperienced, she's got a lot to learn and even her unethical ex boss admits she has the ability to learn it.

I think you just need to put out of your mind, all the gossip he's relayed to you and judge her on what you saw yourself, along with her ability to do the job. Then decide from there, if you want to re-interview her.

Apparently she used to announce how fabulous the work she had just done was so say 'this assessment report I have just done is SO good, I've spent a lot of time on it'. Or 'I'm all ready for the presentation tomorrow my presentation is really good' but to be fair her stuff was good whenever she had claimed it was and she was always honest if she wasn't happy with something.

I got the sense her old Manager liked her though.

I will invite her for another interview.

TBH OP you sound awful yourself - gossiping behind her back and being totally unprofessional, and then posting on MN about it.

You're judging her for gossiping, yet you were gossiping about her! Sounds like she'll fit right in, does it not?!

Unless other candidates get asked whether they drink at the office party, gossip at work or have unconventional opinions, I think it's a bit off to eliminate her for those reasons when you have no idea if any of the others do those things or not.

In your position I'd give her the opportunity to try the new role if her skills, experience and attitude are a good fit.

Wth?! If someone spoke about me like that I'd be mortified! Shit. Yes if I did a good report I would say it was good...why the hell wouldn't I?! You all sound like a bunch of gossipers. Get a life seriously.

I asked for a reference. The manager divulged all that.i didn't encourage it.

But I can't pretend it didn't concern me slightly.

This is batshit.

Does your boss know this is how you are recruiting?

But you shoildn't have been asking for a reference. That's the point.

Unless you are going to have an informal chat with the managers of all the candidates you aren't giving her a fair chance.

Oh she's probably read a Cosmopolitan article about how women don't speak up about their good work and achievements and how that's the reason there's the pay gap, so she should and she's taken it to heart.

I wouldn't worry about that.

So the interviewing team (including yourself) rejected her and told her so.

Then you "found yourself" talking to her ex boss and asked for a reference- just like that, orally?

I repeat, does your line manager know that after the candidate was rejected, you "asked for a reference" anyway?

As I said, batshit.

BTW I wouldn't suggest that is what you should do. Just get references the normal way, ie written references.

Shouldn't the references be used to inform your decision on candidates? You don't just get references for the person who you are offering the job to!

I'd move forward with a new set of candidates for the new vacancy.

Why are you going through all that churn? I can't understand why you're bothering. The candidate pool can't be that scarce!