Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

But again, Merry, what does that mean?

I do expect people to make ill informed decisions to have more children. People do it all the time.

If you mean that massive programmes should be put in place that inform people about family planning, so comprehensive that everyone is well informed, then yes, I agree.

If you mean that everyone in society should already have the ability to make informed decisions about family planning, then no, they don't.

Benefits costs are irrelevant really in this issue of child protection and social services, because they are a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of children in care, and the prisons they so often end up in in adult life. That's the huge social and economic cost that all this suffering leads to.

OP I don't know why you thought I was saying you don't listen.
I have had many dealings with SWs regarding adult care. In my experience SWs do not listen.
Only yesterday, my mother was again found in a soaking wet bed, as she had removed the catheter at some point during the 12 hours, she was left alone. The heating was off. My mother is completely immobile. No speech. No capacity. No means of raising the alarm.
This along with the numerous previous reports, will not be classed as 'significant harm' it will be down graded to care management issues.
The current 'care package' will remain.

51, that's terrible :( have you had any input from ageuk or the voluntary sector?

Almond
What I mean is that having children is a huge responsibility and that it should be treated as such.

I do realise that for certain people thinking ahead or even seeing past the next day is just not something they do, its simply a case of survival. That doesn't make it ok to keep having children though, by child number 2 I think we all become aware of the what child rearing entails, regardless of your education or income levels.
However, I don't think it is unreasonable that in schools in deprived areas a programme is introduced to inform pupils, at about age 13, how much is involved in raising a child. I think the scary scenarios and statistics should be laid out in front of them - % who end up in care, prison. How you will end up living unless you can support yourself and your family etc.

I have knocked on every possible door, owl.
The balance of power lies with the authorities.
I don't think people realise how the elderly are routinely treated in the community.
Local authorities are going down the route of live in carers, cheapest option, sounds cosy doesn't it, until you realise the live in carer is asleep, the vulnerable person is left alone, unchecked.
The carer will have very little qualifications, to deal with complex needs.
The carers job, depends on maintaining the status quo.
This is the future.

Only a tiny minority of people can support children with no financial support whatsoever from anyone else, so it would have to be far more widespread than just deprived areas.

Replying to MrsJayy who posted a while back....not sure if her post was in response to my post about volunteering. Yes I agree that as a volunteer I am going to see lots of difficulties. However as a Mum myself I know what it's like to struggle (my child has extra needs and it cN be like banging my head on a brick wall at times). What I meant by my earlier post is that as a volunteer going in (and families have I be referred into our service and agree to that referral too)sometimes I can help a parent see a light....I would have given anything to have that support when things were hard.

I don't judge but I can sometimes see as an outsider the issues a family embroiled in it all cannot. I don't judge but I listen to what THEY see as the problems. You would be surprised at the number of women with larger families at a young age who tell me "I don't want anymore kids" "I am X age and I've got four children" and quite honestly they are tear filled as they say it, My voluntary work is about helping families identify their own problems and their own solutions ...I don't go in with an agenda other than to help them with whatever those solutions might be, I can't judge...I don't know their lives, they are the experts in their own lives and my only role is to help them utilise their own skills.

The fact that i am not a health visitor or a social worker means the families know I am not there in any official capacity. I am simply there to help xx

Thanks for the recco boffin

I think the elderly are generally poorly treated, ime . I feel for you , I really do as sounds completely out of your control .

There seems to be an assumption that women willingly continue to have kids after a child has been taken into care. Do you know of any?
So many daily mail enthusiasts with not an ounce of insight on this thread.

Sorry that sounded pessimistic. Don't give up 51( am sure you wouldn't).

Of course they do merry, I know one family for starters. What is there to stop them having more babies?

Sorry my not merry

So keep brushing it under the carpet, pretend it doesn't happen ( only in the media) and see how that addresses the problem .
Poor children.

Feminazi
Baby p thread- really? Outrageous, no amount of argument would make me see its her right (his mum) to have further children. She lost her right , but then I believe that for any murderer - should be hanged. But that's another debate.

Again, why? she would just be a baby maker , where are the child's rights? Oh. My.

Only a tiny minority of people can support children with no financial support whatsoever from anyone else, so it would have to be far more widespread than just deprived areas Do you mean that they rely on state education and healthcare? Otherwise I completely disagree with your statement. People should be able to support children with no financial support from anywhere else.

" I don't think it is unreasonable that in schools in deprived areas a programme is introduced to inform pupils, at about age 13, how much is involved in raising a child."

When this has been done, it tends not to result in a fall in teenage pregnancies. It does, however, lead to an improvement in the teenagers parenting skills.

" I think the scary scenarios and statistics should be laid out in front of them - % who end up in care, prison. "

I would expect that the majority of kids born to teenagers end up neither in care or prison, actually. They just go on to live ordinary lives. There isn't even a noticeable drop in life chances for the mothers themselves, once you control for class. It turns out having kids is hard work and expensive whenever you do it.

Some of the comments on this thread are getting a bit weird. People seem to be talking about things that (while maybe not ideal) and just ordinary facts of life: teenage pregnancies, being on benefits, messy house etc.. and conflating them with the kind of stuff that can, or should get your kids taken off you.

The person up thread who said there is a massive cultural divide between social workers and clients was bang on. This thread is just full of it.

"Nathanbarleyrocks* I read it to refer to tax credits. You need to be a pretty good wage to be entitled to nothing at all. Many people are not on a good wage.

If you think people "should" be able to support a child on their own money- we need to talk about reinstating the "family wage" Because at the moment, two wages are generally needed to support a family, which means childcare costs and the consequent need to either 1. Claim some help with childcare costs or 2. Have someone stay home and claim something to top up the family income.

I actually think it's a perfectly resonance function of a social democracy- that workers at a different point in their lives (before kids or who's kids are grown up) subsidise the cost of children a little through general taxation.

*Lazymary
*
Yes

Most people were saying that baby P's mother had served her time and is now free to live her life!

Incidentally, Baby P's mother is now back in jail. She was sending naked photos to her 'fans'! Luckily, she hadn't had anymore kids yet.

I really struggle with where you draw the line for women who have children after they've had previous children removed.

Normally I'd say that enforcing contraception should be banned, but a family friend adopted 3 children, the eldest with FAS and the twins born drug addicted. They keep in contact with their birth mother and she has had more children since them, all removed, all born addicted to drugs, all likely to have the same severe issues that the eldest three children have.

I cannot agree with enforced sterilisation, but surely there must be a halfway house - such as encouraging her to get a copper coil - that would be acceptable? The sad thing is that she really makes an effort to get sober but she never manages to sustain it for a whole pregnancy and then another child gets removed and the cycle continues.

OP, do not become a social worker. I understand how you feel, as I felt the same when younger and less, um, worldly. Experience changed that. Wait until you have changed. Right now, you are not mature enough.

myoriginal3

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/23/mothers-multiple-children-care

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/14/big-jump-in-number-of-newborns-taken-into-care

Not exactly the daily mail!

Almondpudding - I find it rather alarming that you think only a tiny minority of people fully support their own children. As another poster said aside from healthcare and education, people really should be supporting their own children. I find it odd that you would consider that to only be possible for a minority of people.

What part in particular makes you think I am unworldly 🤔 smart?

It may have been that you just changed your views rather than being more mature?

It just that view differs to yours?

All this bloke wanted was a ramp so he could get in and out of the house. But organisations thought they knew better.

www.midsussextimes.co.uk/news/it-s-barmy-disabled-man-trapped-in-his-own-home-1-7696132

Ive read this with interest. So many variables as to why some families need help, some will benefit from intervention and theirs and their children's lives will improve. Some are so 'entitled' they will take whatever's on offer, even though they could do more for themselves, won't. I met quite a few in this category when I was working in the public sector, those are the ones often really resented by neighbours and peers. And there are some whose lives have alway been chaotic, and where it would probably take a miracle for them ever to get to any sort of manageable situation without ongoing support, and even that can fail.

Whilst support and empathy are needed, in some circles that approach can be seen as weakness, especially where the SW obviously comes from a different background to the clients. Encouraging more mature people who have survived hardship and difficulty into the profession might be helpful.

One flew over
Yes, I've fostered children whose parents have gone on to have a lot more. Sometimes the hole left for women when they lose their children just needs to be filled, and as each child is removed the cycle perpetuates. Some women do manage to turn their lives around and keep it together after that.