Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

*complex and severe issues

This thread makes for difficult reading.
I find some of the views concerning.

I have seen both sides of SS. Both my parents are retired and worked in SS at a senior level. I have also seen awful SS service recently to a number of families. Beyond disgraceful.

I don't think SS is the vocation for OP.

This thread reminds me of a TV programme a few years ago about some women going for interviews to become student midwives. Some of them were saying they wanted to do so because they wanted to work with babies.

OP, I'm not sure a caring profession is for you. Even if you were to work only with children, there are going to be children who don't help themselves in the way you want them to. People are messy, complicated, difficult and find life a big struggle.

Thank you almond and turkey for your very firm views on what I, should do as a career . To say I shouldn't be in any kind of care role is a bit over the top in my eyes, but you have your view.

I too work in this area and I have seen the sw rally round in order for a house to be organised, benefits to arrive and various other things to be actioned. There have also been SW on here wHo have suggested the same and became frustrated when people who could do it for themselves, but didn't. It doesn't appear you have read the whole thread.

To say about Children not carrying out actions, I think you have completely missed my point almond

SS exists to protect children at significant risk of harm. Its not that hard to understand, surely?

Not at all patronising 🤔

Op can you really not see the irony? You're judging people you're supposed to be helping, admitting you'd likely not be able to help doing so if you did become a sw...

Yet you're very defensive if feeling judged yourself - is it only OK to judge the people worse off/struggling to cope with life?

The irony I understand is the person who is already in the industry is being patronising, and judging -a stranger , precisely the reason they state I should 'steer clear ' of such a career.
At least this post is about me trying to find out about service users and understand what I am missing , where they are coming from.

I maybe making a judgement about somebody but at least I have some facts.

OP, I still stand by what I said earlier, and I have enjoyed reading the challenging nature of the questions you have raised. But I guess you should expect some challenge too, as not everyone is going to agree. I think to say we shouldn't judge is of course the ideal, but how many of us ever fit an ideal.

Not read the whole thread yet. I don't think social work is for you and I think it's shocking you are on here gossiping about a family you are volunteering with I don't think that is for you either but I guess you are using the volunteering as a means to an end for your Uni application please consider some other career

Is it specifically the child protection side of sw you want to do?mind you as I think I've said earlier, I've had a 'you should be helping yourself more' off the children with disabilities team, so it's not unique to child protection. Actually, I only realised myself how difficult caring was when I started getting overnight respite and I think at that point ss and my la realised the complex nature of my daughter's needs too! The care home couldn't cope with her. They can now but it's taken a long time of minute detail of routine etc managing behaviours, good staffing levels 1:1 but I've noticed I'm no longer criticised for my care at home (which is fine btw but I think they expected me to be super human when I have no family support and other children too whose needs also need to be met)

I'm happy to be challenged me it's a good way to learn 😊

I do understand where you are coming from I think that some people make poor choices compounded by poor choices which result in more chaotic lives impacting onto children and other family members. Should the answer be enabling them further or actually setting boundaries of acceptable behaviour which society recognises as a whole for example had I been the social worker in the baby P case I would have been very vocal about not having dog excrement on the floors, dead mice for the free running reptiles to eat around the house, the child covered in chocolate etc. I could go on, I would be saying actually bleach costs 49p soap similar let's sort this place out as I believe most functioning members of society would see it is unacceptable to live like that and to subject children to live like that as well. I know that there are many factors involved however after being a foster carer being referred too many damaged children, working in addiction seeing too many damaged adults from damaged children and general observation I think too much benevolence is attributed to people who possibly could become more autonomous given higher standards and expectations. Whether you should become a social worker only you can decide you sound quite reasonable to me.

I'm really pleased the care home can now help fully and SS are now a bit more on your side owl I really admire peoples absolute strength coping with disabilities.

Raising a child without additional needs is difficult enough ( I have both ).

I still haven't had a chat with my supervisor as yet as am sure she will give me an honest account, knowing me, of where I do, or do not fit in.
I've looked at other careers in nursing since, or police etc, but I'm still really drawn to helping children in whichever form that takes.

TBH earlier in the thread I thought you should find a different career path. As the thread has gone on though I can see you are expressing the sheer frustration of trying to support families who for whatever reason then take other disastrous decisions.
I suspect you are not alone in that....in fact I'd say you are FAR from alone. All you can do is keep plugging away in the hope that small changes here and there in difficult cases will benefit any children.
As an ex health visitor I have worked with many families where I used to just close my eyes in despair sometimes but I never stopped plugging away and helping them to make small changes. I never gave up.

I now volunteer with an organisation which supports families like this. Being "just another Mum" means I can work in a different way...the person I am working with doesn't feel judged because I am not a health visitor or a social worker, I am simply a befriended who can help them access services which can help them. I often achieve far more with these families as a volunteer than I did as a health visitor.

I'm not a social worker but my oldest friend is. She went into the profession hoping to really help people improve their lot and is leaving incredibly disillusioned by what she has seen.

Realistically social workers deal with a huge amount of people who will never ever get off benefits and have no desire to and she finds that massively frustrating and she knows that there is little she can do at this point. It can be something that is ingrained over generations and therefore hard to escape but many of the people she deals with are incredibly lazy.
She talks of houses where there is little money, and the house is utterly filthy and chaotic. When she tries to intervene re the state of the home, she gets the reply that its so hard to live off benefits etc - yes but that doesn't mean you can't have an orderly home. I appreciate a shortage of money is depressing but you can get a mop out and turn off ITV.

She is not talking about homes where there is domestic violence or major substance abuse, just homes where neither parent works and they live off benefits.

It used to be that there was a shame in having a filthy chaotic home and even if you lived in a council house and had little or no money you would still ensure that your home was clean and your children cared for (this was both sets of my grandparents with one reared by a single mother after her father died)

My friend is however passionate about reforming the education system to try and catch these children earlier on and instill a 'striving' and work ethic in them. She knows the parents just won't do it and by the time they are 12 the opportunity is lost.

So for the OP prepared to be disappointed if you think you are going to change peoples lives.

I think also there is a real attitude of letting people do what they want yes have another child - it's your choice, yes live like you want, don't clean up its your choice, yes behave how you want it's your choice no one can tell me what to do it's my choice or my right there is no accountability and no responsibility encouraged. My last referral from SS when I was a foster carer was for 20 year old mum who was having her 3rd child two previous had gone into care through non accidental injury when I doubted my ability to provide the support she needed through my disbelief she had had two children already taken from her I was seen as the unreasonable judgy person - only in SS world would my disbelief be seen as unreasonable. Poster above is right no change will happen you will be disillusioned

Parsley, what are you suggesting is the alternative to letting people who want to have a child have a child?

Are you meaning that where there has been previous abuse, children should be removed at birth?

alfie nosey parsley
I think you have hit the nail on the head. My mum was brought up in a council home and like you say it was still expected the house were well kept, clean etc.
Now if poo is smeared on the wall, I would suggest that is not normal or acceptable behaviour, then it's stated, but my normal may not be other peoples normal. Pp mentioned the conditions baby p lived in.

I think we are so busy trying not to judge , that actually we lose common sense. I know I have done this ( believe it or not).

I need to find a job with children to help them earlier, before it all becomes ingrained. ..🤔

almond the facts would show whether it is likely (or not) the parent would be a repeat offender, surely a decision would be made at that point?

Realistically social workers deal with a huge amount of people who will never ever get off benefits and have no desire to

Always with the benefits. Benefits benefits benefits. The very first thing you mention, before anything about filthy homes, or neglected children, education…

You'd almost think people are happy for others to live in horrendous conditions, just so long as the taxpayer isn't giving them anything.

If you are volunteer for a charity you are going to see chaos a tonne of babies and then more chaos on top of that every visit you may come across another frustrating scenario that is these peoples lives, saying well they should be doing x y z isnt very productive or helpful ime what might be obvious to you isn't going to be obvious to everybody a bit of compassion goes a long way,

Almond I have no answer all I know is that a 20 year old mum who has had two children removed through non accidental injury and is pregnant with her 3rd has not the ability, education, intelligence, parental ability to keep the next child safe through her actions shown previously. So what is the answer do we just let her breed until on the 15th child she finally gets it and keeps that one or do we say after the second removal we need to help you understand your choices are not helping you - no more babies until you get this. otherwise those children are experiments in her parenting are they not ? Which is wirse her not breeding or those children with non accidental injury ?

I'm asking Parsley to clarify what she means, OP.

Compassion is one thing Mrs Jay but common sense is another and who do we have compassion for the mother or the child ? Interesting and I have no answers hence I don't foster or work in addiction anymore.