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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have had such a reaction to this?

124 replies

Flowersinyourhair · 20/11/2016 08:30

I was out yesterday with two women. One is a friend and the other is a friend of hers so an acquaintance of mine. The acquaintance is pregnant (around 5.5 months). All was great until just after we'd eaten lunch when the acquaintance says that she's going outside for a fag.

I'm sure my face told a thousand tales. I felt a wave of anger that this woman could be so blasé about it. Earlier in the conversation she had refered to how she has given up drinking due to the pregnancy so I couldn't understand why giving up smoking hadn't occurred to her.

AIBU to think that in 2016 with so much awareness about the damage that smoking can do to unborn babies it is madness that this woman, and so many more like her, are still puffing away.

In the interest of presenting the full facts here, my friend told me that the smoking mum to be hadn't made any effort to reduce her cigarettes and actually, when challenged, spoke of her right to smoke and the health of her previous child...

OP posts:
Crystal15 · 20/11/2016 16:43

Hmm. I gave up cold turkey for my baby. Not that hard when you consider the risks

RepentAtLeisure · 20/11/2016 17:24

Not that hard when you consider the risks

Good for you. But not that easy for everyone evidently - we all know the risks associated with smoking, with drinking, with over-eating - but people still smoke, drink and over-eat. They all know the risks but they can't stop. The mother is still a human being with human flaws, she's not just a baby incubator. My DM heavily smoked through four pregnancies. I'd rather she hadn't, but I know she didn't do it to spite us.

SparklyLeprechaun · 20/11/2016 18:18

I gave up smoking a few years before getting pregnant. It was hard, very hard. In all honesty, I'm not sure I would have been able to do it whilst pregnant, not with all the added stress I was under. Yes, I judge pregnant women who smoke, but I also understand how hard it is.

Crystal15 · 20/11/2016 18:35

Repent

Yes it is easy. I felt ill for 6 weeks, mood swings and major cravings. But ya know I am actually an incubator as it's my choice to have a child therfore I would never do anything to give it birth defects. Imo if you can't give up smoking for your child then your a bad parent.

Trifleorbust · 20/11/2016 18:55

Yes it is easy. I felt ill for 6 weeks, mood swings and major cravings.

Yes, sounds dead easy Hmm

But ya know I am actually an incubator...

That may be the way you look at it. You don't get to impose that on other women.

WorraLiberty · 20/11/2016 19:10

I'm sure it's desperately hard to give up. Probably easier to deal with than some of the life long consequences of smoking though.
Let's face it, there's a huge amount of support out there these days. A pregnant woman is not in any sense going to have to go it alone.

Again, following that logic there would be absolutely no fat people in the world, or alcoholics or heroin addicts.

Far too simple.

slenderisthenight · 20/11/2016 20:10

I gave up smoking when I realised I was pregnant.

However I don't feel angry when I see other women smoking while pregnant. I don't feel angry when other women have terminations either, although there are very few circumstances in which I'd have one.

I don't really understand feeling rage when someone else does something you feel is wrong. At least, not in these circumstances. I would certainly feel angry with a child abuser.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 20/11/2016 20:56

Do you not find it abusive to inflict potential harm on an unborn baby then?

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 20/11/2016 21:43

I don't know who your last post is addressed to, OP, but the reality is this: it doesn't matter whether I think it is 'abusive' to inflict potential harm (and you can only inflict harm, not potential harm). Legally the foetus isn't a person. It cannot be abused. Women have the right to consider their own bodily autonomy as paramount. And I say this with 3 weeks left of my pregnancy. I have never smoked and wouldn't smoke because of the harm it could cause, but that is my choice and I don't think I have the right to tell other women what they ought to choose.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 21/11/2016 06:41

"don't think I have the right to tell other women what they ought to choose"

I think you have the right to have an opinion though- as a fellow human. As I stated earlier, I didn't say anything to this woman. I kept my opinion to myself but, to be honest, if I could have found the right words to say to her I would have done. If she was more friend and less acquaintance I would have done.

I think that as a responsible society we should be willing to speak up wherever possible. As I said earlier, I'm angry with myself for not doing.

I would seriously question the future parenting skills of anyone who was so dismissive of their child's health as to smoke/drink/take drugs etc etc whilst pregnant.

OP posts:
treaclesoda · 21/11/2016 07:21

But it's such a slippery slope. In my first pregnancy I was ill from about four months, I was in pain that was worse than labour. I was admitted to hospital several times where I was stabilised with painkillers that are generally avoided in pregnancy.

The number of women (and it has always been women) over the past few years who have told me that they would never have accepted pain relief because they cared so much about the baby they were carrying has been quite eye opening. Apparently I should have suffered five months of unspeakable agony instead. There are people who believe that it should have been illegal for doctors to treat me. Which is frankly terrifying.

NicknameUsed · 21/11/2016 07:34

Isn't it up to HCPs to advise pregnant women?

I hate seeing an expectant mum smoking, but it isn't my business to tell her not to. It would be if I was her midwife though.

RoseGoldHippie · 21/11/2016 07:55

I don't think you should say anything to her if out again, mainly because she isn't your friend and you don't know how she will react to it.

However that being said it really does look grim when you see pregnant women smoking, I'm a smoker but as me and DP are now TTC I have gone onto patches, I cut the down each week in strength so hopefully when pregnant I will have weaned myself completely.

The worst thing is when you see pregnant women on a night out with a bottle of desperado and a fag! Really makes me cringe

Trifleorbust · 21/11/2016 09:55

OP, of course you have a right to your opinion. That is what I am saying. Think what you like, but remember that your opinion is both subjective and runs contrary to the law (for good reason).

Trifleorbust · 21/11/2016 09:57

Treacle: It is terrifying, isn't it? That there are people who actually believe any action taken by a mother that isn't in the interests of her child should be illegal. Extend that to declining induction/forceps/c-section, not wanting to breast feed, sleep training etc and you have the ingredients for a bloody police state. Some people are idiots.

slenderisthenight · 21/11/2016 11:41

The number of women (and it has always been women) over the past few years who have told me that they would never have accepted pain relief because they cared so much about the baby they were carrying has been quite eye opening.

I've had this experience too. Some women need morphine for spd pain during pregnancy. No one should judge until they've felt that kind of pain for longer than a few hours - most people have no idea what they're talking about.

slenderisthenight · 21/11/2016 11:45

flowers I think there's a spectrum of anger that I would feel and most of us cannot go around policing each other's behaviour and reacting to it emotionally unless that behaviour is very extreme. I would feel sad if I saw someone smoking while pregnant in the same way that i feel sad when I see a tired mum shooting her mouth off at her child in the supermarket. But I don't feel anger at someone smoking, no.

I suggest you channel your anger to sign some petitions, lobby your MP about issues pertaining to children's welfare and support some children's charities. Getting angry about things you can't control without taking steps to effect some kind of change or better understand why the problem occurs is just being self-righteous.

Kittybythelighthouse · 21/11/2016 18:55

I'd be very concerned about the idea of society in general policing adult women on what they can and can't do. That is a very nefarious slippery slope. Pregnant women are already denied enough autonomy without emboldening complete strangers to start going on holier than thou judgey tirades. I did not smoke when I was pregnant and I never would, but it's not my business if someone else does.

slenderisthenight · 21/11/2016 18:59

Or better, yet charities that offer support to single mums and teenagers.

sussexman · 21/11/2016 19:18

Flowers - if she were more friend and less acquaintance maybe you would understand more where she was coming from and have a shared history. The facts look wrong to me (as an anonymous male commenter on the internet) but when facts look wrong and odd - there's often a story that makes sense of them. I think no comment to be correct here, maybe not with a different degree of friendship.

mum2Bomg · 21/11/2016 19:26

What would be your motivation for saying something? To make her feel bad? If so, I think this is very misguided. To make her feel stressed and judged is not going to help her baby. At all.

Effic · 21/11/2016 19:47

Trifleorbust (with apologies to all here as I really am not trying to derail the thread!!) - I really struggle with the argument (only ever heard it in here) that to be pro-life and to believe in bodily autonomy means that a foetus has no rights at all right up to the point of birth. Is it really so black and white? If a health care professional know a woman is doing something harmful to a foetus, do you believe that the woman's bodily autonomy trumps any right the baby may have to be born without what can be life long issues? I find that a very difficult line to tread.

Milkmachine15 · 21/11/2016 20:35

My first pregnancy was so stressful that although I couldn't give up I'd cut down to 3 smokes a day each only if I'd eaten a meal...healthy baby boy delivered no issues at all. Second pregnancy was a totally different situation and I gave up the day after we found out and did this go round by the book then miscarried so would I judge someone I barely know for having a fag after lunch? Nope because I'm not her!!!

Totallybonkersmum · 21/11/2016 21:41

I guess it really is her business and she's obviously selfishly totally incapable of giving up for the sake of her baby. God help that child!
Personally, I've never smoked, and hate the smell of it. It's a tricky one for me at the moment because my 21 year old son has taken it up. I hate the smell of it on him, but love his huge hugs. I've tried very hard to persuade and used all avenues, to get him to give up. Even telling him that I may need some blood transfusions during a serious op I've got coming up. Yes, I'm that desperate😔.
However, I don't socialise with people who smoke at all. Not at all. I find even vapping just as bad, and there are some serious government health concerns regarding that. That's my choice and my right. I just enjoy the fact that all public places, eateries and pubs come to that, are now smoke free. At least she wasn't able to light up in your face and that you didn't have to go back stinking of her smoking! 😉

mummylove2monsters · 21/11/2016 22:07

I am an ex smoker - I gave up 15 years ago the very day I discovered I was pregnant- i don't agree that it's too hard to do - the thought of the saftey of my child was all I needed and I'm sorry but it should be like smoking in cars with children.... illegal- there's so much evidence saying it has an effect on the baby so to do it is just as bad as if you were in a car or room with a child - my friend is a midwife and she says that the waters and placenta of a smoker are a clear giveaway ( the placenta is all rough compared to a non smoker ) .