To have had such a reaction to this?

[Flowersinyourhair]

I was out yesterday with two women. One is a friend and the other is a friend of hers so an acquaintance of mine. The acquaintance is pregnant (around 5.5 months). All was great until just after we'd eaten lunch when the acquaintance says that she's going outside for a fag.

I'm sure my face told a thousand tales. I felt a wave of anger that this woman could be so blasé about it. Earlier in the conversation she had refered to how she has given up drinking due to the pregnancy so I couldn't understand why giving up smoking hadn't occurred to her.

AIBU to think that in 2016 with so much awareness about the damage that smoking can do to unborn babies it is madness that this woman, and so many more like her, are still puffing away.

In the interest of presenting the full facts here, my friend told me that the smoking mum to be hadn't made any effort to reduce her cigarettes and actually, when challenged, spoke of her right to smoke and the health of her previous child...

Of course you can think it. But it's her body.

some women do need policed on their bad choices

A dangerous road to go down. It's never 'some', it's all or nothing. Many women will make a 'bad choice' in pregnancy, is actually go as far as saying most will. Where do we draw the line? That's the trouble with judging other people's choices, very much living in a glass house.

I'm pretty sure giving up has occurred to her OP.

I didn't say anything at all to her and in many ways wish I had. I think that society should challenge people about the choices they make that affect the lives of others.

Does that include all the overweight/obese women who choose to get pregnant, without getting down to a healthy BMI first?

Or is this just another 'bash the smokers' thread?

The difficulty with the position of policing women who are pregnant, and criminalising them for smoking due to the harm to the unborn foetus, is that it is incompatible with abortion rights. If you give a woman a criminal record for damaging an unborn baby that then goes on to be born, where do you draw the line? Because arguably in those circumstances, the greatest harm that can be done to a foetus is abortion.

We are very clear that women have the right to decide if an abortion is right for them, and we need to stick to that otherwise it becomes a slippery slope.

I do feel sad that women continue to smoke during pregnancy, but then I have never smoked so it's pretty easy for me to judge. Pregnancy is a very stressful time, and for an addict to go thringshrough it without being able to lean on a previously important crutch must be so hard.

some women do need policed on their bad choices

As much as your instincts might say this, your brain surely disagrees? Do you want a situation to emerge where women are quizzed, tested, arrested, fined, imprisoned or their children are removed because they exercise the autonomy over their own bodies that they have always enjoyed as competent adults? Today it's smoking - the advice is don't do it. Or drinking, despite the evidence being less overwhelming. What if tomorrow the advice is to wear a face mask to stave off pollutants? What if it's that women MUST take iron tablets and vitamins? What if it's that they shouldn't travel on planes?

How much of your freedom and that of your daughters, nieces, granddaughters are you willing to sign away?

Yeah there's no real easy solution I agree. In this scenario I would very much judge this woman's particular poor choice though and that's just me being honest.

I get that the unborn baby has no rights blah, blah but having heard the effect having a cigarette has on the foetal heart rate (yes it's that responsive) I can't understand how anyone playing so loosely with the life of their baby is allowed to behave so selfishly. Okay so it's extremely difficult to quit but as many smokers on this thread have said, it's not impossible.

ispy, so if some addicts are able to give up, that means all addicts should?

Surely you can apply that theory to everything?

So almost overnight there would be no alcoholics, no heroin addicts, no food addicts, no nicotine addicts etc?

I'm pretty sure these things are not that simple.

Unfortunately I don't think you can say anything as it's her body and her choice, but I think I'd feel too uncomfortable about this to spend any time around this woman. Seeing obviously pregnant women smoke makes me feel physically sick knowing what they are doing to their unborn child.

can't understand how anyone playing so loosely with the life of their baby is allowed to behave so selfishly.

So you don't get that the foetus has no rights. What would you suggest? What rights would you give the foetus that would not curtail the rights of the mother to the level of medical coercion?

It really isn't that hard to give up smoking if you have the motivation. Maybe if you're depressed and cannot cope with any more low moods, but otherwise... Pregnancy should be a pretty strong motivator for most people.

I can understand an automatic reaction of shock. I'm struggling with your thought processes after that tbh. I'm sure 'giving up smoking' has occurred to her and that she will have had discussions with the midwife/HV/GP. You have no way of knowing the format or outcome of those discussions.
It would be lovely if people knew something was bad and suddenly stopped but people eat too much; drink and smoke all the time. People being sanctimonious has never helped anyone to change ime.
And, I'm fervently anti-smoking. I watched a parent die of lung cancer and I won't let anyone smoke in my house.But your OP is full of virtue-signalling and lack of understanding.

I personally wouldnt do it (dont smoke at all and never have) but wouldnt feel rage like you do at someone else doing it. Ultimately it is her body so she is free to do what she wants. YABU.

I'm with you OP I hate seeing it,I can remember being in hospital heavily pregnant and really ill and there were tons of women heavily pregnant going oustide all the time to smoke,it makes me feel sick when I see anyone doing that!

It's bad enough when people are holding they're young children and smoking at the same time or you can see the smoke from they're cigarette going all over they're poor child whilst they're in they're pram/buggy but when they're in the womb that poor tiny baby has no escape from breathing all those toxins in!

She might have had advice from her GP that it's best to continue to smoke lightly if trying to give up is causing her stress. Not quite six of one half a dozen of the other, but smoking is very addictive. I've seen people in my life struggle with trying to give up over decades. For some people it's just not as easy as "Oops I'm pregnant, I'll now just magically cease to be addicted to whatever I'm addicted to."

"It could be worse, at least it's not heavy drinking or drug use."

We were taught at school that smoking was worse than heroine for unborn babies. A baby born a heroine addict just gets weaned off it.

"It's illegal to smoke with an under 18 in your car.... same should definitely apply to a baby inside your body!"

What happens to abortion rights in this scenario?

Gwenhwyfar, just 'get weaned off it'? Had your teacher never seen a baby/child grow up with the ongoing physical effects of hard drugs in pregnancy? I would say comparatively, hard drugs are certainly worse for a foetus than smoking.

I'm pretty confident that every smoker in this country knows it's bad for their health and those around them, yet they still do it. Her midwife would have also told her the facts. She knows the choice she has made for whatever reason

I think that's the shocking thing though. She has to know but is doing it anyway. I don't get that. I don't get how anyone can value their child's health so little that their own addiction comes ahead of it. I accept that as a life long non smoker I have no idea how hard it is to stop but I'm pretty sure that it's not as tough as the experience I had of a miscarriage.

I never gave up smoking completely with my DD. I did go from 20 a day to 3 though. My midwife actually told me that this was 'fine'. As stopping completely..a lot for womens stress levels rise to a terrible amount and the raised blood pressure and such could do a lot worse than a few ciggies a day. Not sure if this is true or she said it to make me feel better though. Did end up stopping completely, but the advice was not to go cold turkey and cut down slowly.

Oh. I also used to get abuse from randomers about what I ate when pregnant. As food can harm babies also. I had a (well done) steak and a lady started bleating on about how rare meat can 'literally kill my baby' My main 'craving' was blue wkd which I didn't even drink before pregnancy, and yes. I had the odd half a bottle at times because of this. I was judged a lot...probably by people who thought this meant I was boozing constantly rather than knowing the situation. I was also touched by strangers, and give a load of 'advice' I didn't want, asked about my exercising regime and so on. For some reason a pregnant woman becomes public property once carrying. I find this wrong...so wrong.

Flowersinyourhair, speaking as someone who's both given up smoking and had a miscarriage- the two things are not comparable on any level. They are both very tough things, and requires sympathy and understanding from those around you, but you cannot say 'I've been through a horrible life event, therefore will sneer and judge this woman for making a bad health choice'. You should have stopped at 'as a lifelong non smoker, I have no idea how hard it is to quit. You don't, not even the slightest clue or sympathy.

I grew up around a smokers, I craved cigarettes years before I started smoking. I quit two years ago and there's not a day that goes by when I don't feel like having one. If I was left alone for an hour with a pack of twenty, I'd doubt there would be one left by the end of that time. Obviously I'm a very weak person compared to your perfect self. Perhaps instead of being angry with this woman for her life choices, your time would be better spent educating yourself of addiction. Even though you may disagree with how others lead their lives, it would do no harm in trying to be empathetic.

Gwen a baby born addicted to hard drugs does not simply get weaned off it and everything's hunky dory.

I have never been a smoker but I imagine its incredibly hard to give up.

I'm sure it's desperately hard to give up. Probably easier to deal with than some of the life long consequences of smoking though.

Let's face it, there's a huge amount of support out there these days. A pregnant woman is not in any sense going to have to go it alone.