AIBU to not grasp some kinds of grief?

[lizzieoak]

I'm curious about what upsets people when famous people die? As an example, I was a massive fan of Amy Winehouse & I was sad when she died. Primarily thought "oh, how sad for her poor family" & a little bit thought (& still think) "how sad for people who loved her writing & voice that it's all ended so soon."

But, horrible monster that I am, I didn't cry, as I didn't know her personally and, sadly, it was hardly a huge surprise. Ditto the death of our treasured Mr Cohen. He was 82.

On the non-famous end, while I was sad when my dad died when I was in my 20's, I thought "well, today I'm sad, but in a year I bet days will pass when I don't even think of dad". A friend of mine had a parent die around the same age and he spends the whole month, every year, 30 years later, being Quite Upset. Slight difference in the manner of our parent's deaths as my dad had been sick on & off since I was a kid whereas my friend's mum died of cancer within a year of getting ill.

I totally grasp that a loss of a child could destroy a person. It's out of the natural order of things. And the loss of a spouse - I can see how that could be pretty devastating.

But I worry a bit that I feel sad but not grief-stricken about the loss of people I love (older adult family members thus far) & people whose work I've admired.

Is it just that I'm a cold fish in this regard? Can anyone upended by the death of an elderly person, or Princess Diana, explain to me ... well, just what it is they're upset about?

Hard to convey tone online sometimes, but I'm not being sarkie, I really don't grasp this (though am otherwise emotionally normal).

Anecdotally, my male friends seem more thrown by the death of elderly rellies, whereas women seem more emotional than men are by the death of famous people. Not necessarily true across society, but in my circle I've noticed this.

slenderisthenight - interesting to hear that I am not the only one to have had such a dream. I haven't had it for a while now, perhaps because more time has passed.

Strange.

Tom Hart's graphic novel Rosalie Lightning (about the tragic loss of his two year old daughter) is 'good' on grief, if that makes sense.

when very talented famous people die I feel very upset if it is someone whose work I have loved and whose work has had an impact in my own emotional life: Leonard Cohen, Jeff Buckley, Amy Winehouse and especially Michael Jackson. Nelson Mandela! I feel it as a light going out from the world. My parents died when I was quite young (Mum- 20 yrs old; Dad 30 yrs old) and hardly a day passes that I don't feel some some emotion regarding Mum or Dad.

Deep grief is a reflection of deep love. That is a consolation when we are in pain I feel. That we are in pain because we have loved deeply, and when we have loved deeply we will always feel the loss. We will not always be devastated by it but we will ALWAYS feel it.

That is why I find the conspicuous grief for famous people so odd. How can you feel deep love for someone you have never met? That isn't deep love and loss as I have experienced it.

whattheseithakas some people aren't that close to their family members or friends in real life. While they may feel love they don't neccesarily feel a close emotional bond.
An artist (say a singer/songwriter) shares some of their own emotions and experiences through their work and many people connect to this. It's very common for people to turn to music and gain comfort from it in times of distress.
You don't have to know someone in person to feel a connection with them. At the same time you can be closely related to a person and see them every single day and yet feel very little emotion for them.
There just aren't any rules for how we feel about people and how we react to their loss. We just feel how we feel.

Should have added, by definition, famous people tend to be charismatic (at least those in the entertainment business) so it's expected that people will feel drawn to them and therefore feel a sense of loss when they die.

You kind of remind me, OP, having skim-read the thread of a friend of mine, who had the opinion that because she had been through real shit in her life and not needed therapy or antidepressants, that anyone who suffers with depression and hasn't had a shit time is just not trying hard enough.

I've no idea in your views on depression, obviously, but when you describe your mourning for your father you appear to be implying that people who grieve more than that are doing so excessively, because you were able to pull yourself together? Or have I completely misunderstood your post?

I lived through a terrorist bomb claiming the life of a boy at my school. Aged 14, that level of horror and grief was too complex for me to grasp, I barely cried but I did go into a state of complete shock and looking back as an adult, I have cried at the whole situation.

My grandad died when I was 21 (he was 69, it was cancer and expected). It was my first personal loss. I had a month off work and ended up quite traumatized insomnia took hold for about 6 months after. My colleague at the time lost her grandad, she took the day off for the funeral and was appalled at my behaviour. But I couldn't function for most of that first month.

My nan passed away 2 years ago (I was mid 30's, she was 82). She'd had dementia and for the 3 or 4 years leading up to her death I'd cried so much and had many sleepless nights. The family was torn apart with social services investigations, instigated by lies made by a distant family member with an axe to grind.

When she died, surrounded by her children, having had a week of visits from her grandchildren and great grandchildren to say goodbye, the relief and the peace was overwhelming. I didn't cry. A few tears at the funeral but that was it.

So, my ramblings conclude that each death is unique each relationship is unique, each person is unique and there is no right or wrong for grief and as an extension of that, grieving a celebrity is actually a reflection, in my opinion, of the mourner's life experiences and how they identified with that person (or , it's simply down to media hype).

This is a really fascinating thread.

Agree with last poster that there is no right or wrong - except that if your grief is stopping you functioning then you may need help.

If there is an arc, then I am on the low end of expressive grief - doesn't mean I don't miss, love, grieve, but it is expressed less maybe. but I can understand others who feel and express their emotions differently. My dd is very different to me and expresses more overt emotion about my mum's death than I do in some ways. But I know how much I loved my mum and how important I was to her and she was to me.

I also had a miscarriage years ago and it really didn't affect me long or even medium term although I was very upset at the time. I didn't think it was a lost baby and I forgot the due date immediately. Hearing other women who have had miscarriages express different emotions (mostly on these kinds of websites) has made me realise that I process things one way and others a different way - no one right way.

The loss of my parents hits me in odd ways. My dad had a favourite song he used to sing to us as kids (from an old musical). After he died, my dd got a part in her school musical and sang that song. To this day I bitterly regret that my dad never got to hear it - he'd have loved it.

sorry should have said if your grief is stopping you functioning after a significant period of time, you might need someone to talk to. No one functions well in the immediate aftermath of grief.

What I can't understand is how anyone as a child could possibly prepare themselves for when their parent dies surely this is most children's worst nightmare.. To actually think about and try and plan how they'll cope is bizarre

Personally when my Mam died my life fell apart. Sorry if my grief seems OTT

Brian Cox, you have misread it. And please don't even go there w guessing that maybe I feel that way about depression. I've had depression, many people in my family have had depression.

And I can't see how I've implied people should pull themselves together. Some posters have said that & I think they've every right to say if that's how it looks to them. I'm surprised people's grief can be expressed very publicly, come back on anniversaries etc, but people have actually helped me understand that better. With the possible exception of the Liverpudlians & the chicken. But no jests, that will get people very cross.

Lucy, I'm not sure why it seems bizarre to you that that's how I dealt w it. He'd been sick since I was quite wee - it's not like I was an adult who sat down w spreadsheets & a calculator to plan imagining how it would be. It just happened, as a small child's coping mechanism. Other people have said the same thing, so it's not really bizarre.

Getting grumpy now. While I was expressing generalized curiosity & confusion, people seem to have taken it as directed at them then actually told me I'm not a nice person. Not cool internet.

lizzie I have actually found this thread really interesting and helpful. I personally have never grieved for a celebrity because I don't know them. I've been saddened but that's about it. No-one is judging here - it's curiosity. Regarding the practising for a parent's death - for me, it was my biggest fear, and I guess I tried to explore that fear by facing it, as uncomfortable as it was. It didn't lessen my grief, but by thinking about the possibility of it happening, rather than telling myself my dad would live forever, it prepared me to some extent - but at the same time, I used to wish on shooting stars and birthday candles that my mum and dad would live for always.

I'm kind of a 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' kind of girl anyway. Sorry you've had a bashing lizzie - I wish there were more threads to discuss what is still quite a taboo subject.

The very worst time in my life was when my brother was seriously injured and didn't die
I found it harder to cope with that than when my other brother and my mum died
I was in bits for months and it really affected me badly and I lost my job
I do wonder if it was because of how I had coped with my previous bereavements
Obviously, I was overjoyed that he recovered but I did feel overwhelmed and did go through some sort of post traumatic stress

Grief is weird and very individual but maybe the public grief does do some good for people's mental health
It's no good bottling it all up, it needs an outlet

I think there is something in the idea that a celebrity death can be an 'outlet' for more personal grief/fears/pains etc.

I remember thinking this when diana died. I was watching the mass outpourings of grief and I just couldn't fathom it. When Tony Blair then called her the people's princess I felt worse......I think Noel Gallacher said that these people out chucking flowers at her hearse and weeping probably never even visited their own grans grave.

Maybe it's easier than visiting your own grans grave somehow.

I don't think the op was being critical they were opening up a discussion

We should be taking about grief more and in that discussion question will be raised that others might fine upsetting it's a difficult subject to talk about

I'm a coper, usually. I'm a musician and always asked to play for family funerals, which I do gladly. I am always in a supportive role.
But in the last few months, my closest childhood friend died suddenly. I have never felt anything like it. I was numb for a few hours, then I had to tell other people about it and I literally couldn't get the words out for sobbing. I cried just walking into her funeral. I have dreams about her. I still have (private) tears.
I rarely cry, and am a very positive person in my general life, this has totally blindsided me.

The only celebrity that I have cried over was Rik Mayall and the depth of my grief for him took me by surprise initially. However, on reflection, he was the same age as my late DH when he died and was very similar physically and in attitude from what I could see. My DH died 7 years ago and I had time to accept his death before he died and was there when he did so I did a lot of my grieving in private before the actual event. I do still mark my late DH's birthday and day of death on Facebook. I believe that we never truely die until the memory of us is no more. My FB statuses keep the memory alive.

Rik Mayall was also a bright young thing in the summer of my life. His death marked the end of my "youth" and the beginning of my end if that makes sense. I have not had that same feeling of loss since and 2016 has been a particularly cruel year for death.

I've never been a cryer or one for public declarations of grief. Like other have commented, I found the Facebook essays on celebrities or relatives a bit attention seeking and couldn't understand the need for public sharing.

My DD died 2 months ago and everything I thought I knew about grief changed. I wailed through her funeral. I was in physical pain and it hurt so much I wanted to just scream and scream. The wails were uncontrollable and I sobbed and just let everything come out of me. I couldn't have cared less what anyone thought. I couldn't even tell you who else was in the room outside my immediate family. I'm sure some people thought it was very dramatic but it was over powering. The shock, devastation, disbelief, despair took over.

I have also made some public posts on Facebook. Firstly, to have my 'statement' out there and stop the speculation and questions. It was a way to try and gain control when I had none. Then another to thank friends for support as I couldn't face replying individually. I've also shared pictures as I'm terrified of people forgetting her. Or two months on when people think you should be ok by now to say I'm really not.

Grief is so personal and different for everyone and I previously judged and assumed how I might behave but I've learnt the hard way that people just do what they need to do to get through it. Maybe seeking attention is how they get through it. Obviously the death of pets and the out pouring of grief feels difficult for me after going through the worse loss but I guess it's all relative to that person's experiences.

I have felt intensely sad over public deaths. But that is not grief. I shed tears over Jo Cox death because it was a terrible thing and the thought of her husband and children missing her. But that is no different to finding the story on children in need last night about the mum who is dying desperately sad. I "miss" celebrities who have died. Eg I find it sad to think that we will never see any new work from Victoria Wood. But that isn't grief.
I miss my dad who died 15 years ago every day. That is grief.

I think it was the Quite Upset remark that made you sound critical op.That's not a sympathetic way to refer to someone who is grieving.

Not, rather! :)

Hmm. I cried when Seamus Heaney died. I think there was a sort of mass outpouring of a grief as being an NI Catholic he was one of our own people. He also reminded me a lot of my dad, and one does feel a sort of connection through reading poetry. I was a mess when they broadcast the funeral service.

I do think some of the "RIP famous person" on fb/twitter is less than genuine though. Usually the same people who go in for "RIP great -Aunt May who I met for half an hour when I was 6" type stuff.