To ask how you deal with your narcissistic mothers when non contact isn't an option?

[Flamingo1980]

Spent 36 years being emotionally battered by my mother and I can't do it any more. She's a classic narcissist mother and I find it really hard to deal with her as I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.
I have managed to emotionally detach myself from her which is positive - she no longer makes me cry but she's likely to ruin Christmas. Again. Any thoughts? PLEASE don't suggest non contact as this isn't possible as believe me if it was I would have done it by now!

Boundaries, consistently.

I tell her little about my life and even less about my opinions. She doesn't care anyways and her disinterest hurts me less when I can tell myself it's because she doesn't actually know. I trip up occasionally, recently had a mc, told her and then felt upset when her only response was "well I never had any problem having kids". Still, it reminded me to maintain those boundaries in future.

I ALWAYS call out her bad behaviour now. I'm never rude but I will state if I disagree with her, or she has been inappropriate etc.

"I'm sorry you feel that way but I will not be doing whatever ridiculous thing she has requested to test my loyalty this week".... Repeat until she stops asking.

Smile and nod, make your excuses when she calls to waffle on about herself.

I can only relate to this in part. I have a sister who is really unstable and is a narcissist. Some of the advice on here is really good. Marking place and thinking of CBT.

^^ agree with this. I maintain a similar relationship with a family member. As a result I am guilt free, get no grief from them- they mean nothing more than some annual ritual motions . Outwardly there's nothing "wrong".
The family member who I maintain this because of (illness) is none the wiser.

Eerily similar situation for me, no advice that I can give but a great suggestion about keeping on top of formal occasions I.e Birthdays. I find them hard to approach, especially Mother's Day, so I will take this advice on, try not to get too emotional and just get a card on it's way.
OP if you had your own way what would you want Christmas to look like?

Some really really good advice coming through here. Weirdly a lot of it is stuff I'm doing anyway - like telling her almost nothing personal etc - subconscious survival mechanisms kicking in maybe.
It also is very comforting knowing I'm not the only one!

I want my Xmas to look like an advert but I don't think it will!!!

And yes I do have a child which makes things vvvv complicated.

Hi, Have a look on Out of the FOG website at the 'toolbox' area, it has lots of suggestions for people not going NC such as medium chill / Low contact which has ideas such as those suggested here. I am NC with my mum bue do some of the things mentoned here (impersonal gifts, etc, medium chill) with the rest of them (family of mum I mean). It does help. Hope it goes OK. Also 'being busy' non-specifically can help, not always answering the phone, or calling back, as you are 'busy' you can even get a ring tone just for them on your phone to warn you x

yes, it must :/

Does your mother have much to do with your child?

If she does then one thing that can help counteract a destructive influence is to encourage your child in an age appropriate way to think about what the effects of someone's actions are on other people. Questions like "how did that make you feel" can get a child reflecting and thinking about how they should act. It's not really ideal but when you're trying to limit the damage a destructive person does, it's one option.

Mine does not now we have a landline and I don't give the number out anyway.

Mine has criticised me so badly from very young. I went to a very good (selective) school and was lucky to get in. From the time I started, she would get me to take days off. Once she rang the school so I could go home early and I could never figure out why. She often lay in bed instead of helping get us ready for school.

She would tell me people thought I was boring. She screamed at me once for staying late a local library and said I was heavily drinking. Drama drama....

She never supported me through college and I never went home in the holidays as she would say I was using the place like a hotel.

She tried to spoil my wedding and after I married she told dh all my faults. She mocked me for needing c sections and thought it was . ridiculous. It was due to low placenta.

So I tell her nothing. My dc.. if I talk she shushes me.. she only wants to talk to them.

I cannot deal with her anymore.

wobbly if you can, stop the shushing business. It's absolutely no good for your children to see you being silenced.

Your children need to be treated with respect and they need - need to see you being treated with respect. YOu need to model for them that being silenced is not acceptable for anyone to put up with.

it's hard to do though. But you do have every right to start saying 'don't do that' to your mother.

Thanks seafarer

It I really tough. She says horrible things. I know mothers are meant to be honest but there should be balance. I can deal with honest people- I work with some tough cookies who say it straight. It is a lot more personal with your dm.. It cuts.

I tend to stay quiet around her. Then I will get a phonecall from my father to say I should be able to talk to my family... er... if I say anything I get ridiculed or nice things about me get dismissed.

She also plays tricks. doesn't answer the door then says she is so lonely and no one visits. we had family over recently and she didn't tell me when they were there so I didn't get to see them. I can't explain how she is.

I think people who've been there understand, wobbly. the great thing about on line is that you canfind people with similar experiences. It's very lonely in real life with people who either have happy families or who are deep in the FOG.

Then I will get a phonecall from my father to say I should be able to talk to my family. Ah yes. Lovely. You are silenced, and then you are rebuked for silence. It gets made out to be all your fault. I remember it well. Or rebuked for not saying what's going on in your life, when they don't actually listen to anything at all except to make out that you're not handling anything well. Makes you trip over your mental feet all the time.

I do mean it though. This is not good for your children to see you being treated like this; they need to see you treated with respect, just as you treat them and other people with respect. It's hard to start quietly distancing yourself, but it is worth considering. No drama, just less available.

I love it when a bit of commonality brings people together! So nice not to be alone. I'm definitely going to check out that fog website!

I can relate. I'm lucky in that I have two siblings so we take turns at Christmas.

Largely my rules are:

No more than 48 hours in my house.
I see her maybe every three months but not more than this.
The minute she's rude/critical, I tell her so (this means that we argue a lot). But I will not tolerate it.
I don't answer the phone to her if I don't feel like it.
I tell her nothing personal and try to keep conversation light.
I don't ever put anything like the news on whilst she's here or she starts ranting.
I don't leave the dc alone with her.
I don't go to public places with her that I want to return to - she's usually rude to the staff.

That's it really. My dm does the shushing. She can also go into treating you like a servant - no, no, no!!! I wanted the Merlot not the Cote du Rhone. I shocked her last Xmas by saying well go and get it yourself then and sat down, having given everybody else a drink. It causes an unpleasant atmosphere and people who don't know her think I'm the evil one. I've got past caring. For my own sanity I won't put up with her being rude to me.

From the other side, a viewpoint which might be helpful but might not...

My sister went NC with the entire family years ago. She clearly felt deeply hurt about something but she was very ill (both physically and mentally) and decided to not only go NC but also to lash out before she did so.

She told me she 'used' to love me. She wrote my 70+ mother a 25 page letter stating everything she had ever done wrong as her mother. And that was it.

It's deeply hurtful not only that she did this but also terribly sad that she felt this was necessary and couldn't speak to us.

She's missed out on numerous holidays, events, babies, weddings and she could have just spoken to us all and we would have listened to her. It feels like she just 'gave up'.

I haven't contacted her as I'm trying to respect the fact that she told me to leave her alone numerous times during our last contact but I cannot put it down. I think about her all of the time and I hope she's ok. But there is nothing I can do now.

I obviously don't know the people in your life but would it be worth explaining to them that you are deeply unhappy with these relationships and would go NC and the reasons why, with examples, so they have a chance to listen to you?

My elderly mother-in-law is like this, my tips are:

If possible never allow her into your house, only visit her then if it gets too bad you can cut the visit short.

Get caller ID and only answer her phone calls when you want to, my MIL regularly fills up the voicemail on our home phone within a few hours but we just let her and delete the messages.

I know how you feel OP, my MIL when she was younger would just turn up in a taxi at our house if we ignored her on the phone and stand there with her finger on the door bell until we gave in and let her in. She even did this in the early hours of the morning on a couple of occasions. Honestly, this only got better really when she got too old to do it.

I think the poster upthread who said treat it like a zombie relationship has it spot on. I would love love love to cut my MIL out of our lives but my DH is an only child and MIL is old with no one else to rely on as she has alienated everyone she knows with her spite. I know it sounds awful but me and DH will both celebrate when she dies as we will be free from her.

I'm pretty new to this as I only realised a couple months ago what narcissist my mum is. However, one thing that has really helped me (and probably is really trivial) is to keep reminding myself that she's batshit crazy.

I listen to her conversations now and let her throw tantrums, not taking anything to heart - then immediately after I call my DH or best friend and start a conversation with "you'll never guess what my mum just said".

Honestly, having other people laugh at how ridiculous she's being is one of the most cathartic experiences ever.

'Basically what you're looking to do is set up a hollow, empty shell of a "relationship" where you have as little contact as possible and go through the motions like a zombie. Because that's the best kind of relationship it's possible to have with a narcissist.'

I do the same. I tell my parents nothing of any substance, and nod and smile without much emotion to their news. I see them rarely and have sporadic text contact in between. Its desperately sad but its the only way to stay sane. Non contact never felt right to me either, but I absolutely had to start managing the relationship on my terms. They will never be the parents I want or need and that really hurts but I have worked very hard on detaching emotionally.

I'm glad it helps to know that you're not alone

I'm quite literally hanging on every word of what you're saying as it makes so so much sense. Thank you to those who gave me advice accepting that's it's not as straight forward as just cutting all contact, as like I said a few times, if I could, I would have by now!
It's heartening to see it's possible to handle it in other ways - I LOVE the idea of short periods, zombie stance, then debriefing to an understanding ear!
I have had plenty of counselling believe me - it's kept me sane as I swear otherwise i would be sectioned by now. She's just turned 70 and is getting worse by the day!

Flamingo my mum is 70 too and I'm 36. Maybe we've reached the age where we can't stand it anymore.

I Iove this thread, if I talk to other people I get 'Well just don't let her do X,Y,Z!'

They do not have a clue. Do they think you would let someone treat you like that if there were any other option?

I find it helps to take a measure of control back. My mum tells me when she is visiting and I'm expected to sit in for her, 3 days a week. I've started going out and being uncontactable when I don't want to talk. It is minor and childish but I feel I can cope better with the whole relationship if I have some measure of control.

Great thread, I'm going to have to look at some of the websites mentioned.

My mum is a narcissist and I never thought I could go no contact. But I pissed her off so much that she disowned me! (I went ahead and got married even though she wouldn't come. She loves dh, she just didn't want to see my dad at the wedding). After the initial heartbreak I felt at her actions, I was fine. Better than ever. No drama, no being petrified that she was dead (she would regularly "disappear" and unplug her phones so we would worry). Then she called me on my birthday so we had contact again. And even though I tried to keep it light and be distant, it ended up just like before.

She's not talking to me again now, and it took all of half a day to get over it. It is very sad that I just don't have the mum I want, but her torturing me isn't preferable to having no contact. I feel sorry for her though. (Which is why I'll prob not tell her to fuck off the next time she contacts me. She'll probably wait until xmas day for that.)

OP - I am trying to formulate an AIBU about my narcissistic mother right now. No real answers, but you have my empathy. I have found having a list of excuses next to the phone and the front door helpful - but I also emigrated to the other side of the planet and have conducted my communication with mum via skype. (THERE'S a suggestion!) Good luck!!!