AIBU to think Political Correctness never actually went too far?

[Lessthanaballpark]

AIBU to think that as soon as Political correctness actually started to gain any traction there was a backlash against it that dampened its effect from the outset?

That as soon as the idea that people should check themselves before expressing any racist, sexist or disablist opinion an equally powerful feeling of resentment emerged to counter it and frame those do-gooders as hysterical feminazi killjoys (if female)/manginas(if male)?

That from the moment that women's rights started to have any effect on society, cries of "pussification" and "political correctness gone too far" erupted before anything actually had a chance to "go too far"? That from the privileged viewpoint of someone who is used to seeing themselves reflected in the media, sport and politics, any step towards including other groups feels like a step too far.

That it is far far far more common to hear people saying "well I know this is politically incorrect but I'm going to say it anyway" than it is for people to actually chide others for being politically incorrect.

And that this nostalgia for a time before political correctness existed incorrectly assumes that we have already reached racial/sexual equality and have gone beyond it when really we are only half way there?

But the trouble is these are decisions by individuals, but somehow political correctness is blamed. There is no law to ban nativities (although when I am PM I may implement one😁) . My boss is currently calculating annual leave for part time staff incorrectly, this is not a case of ' local government annual leave policy gone mad' , it is my boss making an error.

I read a fascinating piece (unfortunately cannot remember where) comparing the Daily Mail and other right wing presses reporting of the Adam Johnson case versus the Rotherham case.

Essentially the same crimes, grooming and exploitation of children and yet reported in vastly different ways as poisonwitch pointed out.

But that's the point I'm making Bert; the previous two years the other four children had participated in the nativity, and their parents had not complained or withdrawn their child. It just seemed to be the next year that all of a sudden it was a problem with the new head. Why can't schools keep their traditions, which are greatly enjoyed by both children and parents?

Used to work with a chap. His DD got involved with a local drug dealer and became addicted. Dad was very upset about how is daughter was getting dragged into the drugs scene. No one was dong anything about the drugs so he decided to "have a chat" with the dealer, by which he went about beating the crap out of him..

Now that is wrong and an offence and he got in trouble with the police for taking the law into his hands.. BUT.

The dealer was from an ethnic minority .. so the prosecution said it was racially motivated. .. and the dad went to jail for a racial hate crime. In fact it was a you hurt my daughter so I beat you up crime...

"there are people so afraid of being politically incorrect that they misinterpret things/make mistakes"

You can't really blame political correctness for people being stupid!

"The dealer was from an ethnic minority .. so the prosecution said it was racially motivated. .. and the dad went to jail for a racial hate crime. In fact it was a you hurt my daughter so I beat you up crime" Gosh. Poor little flower. He beat someone up and went to prison.

But, that's because the prosecution did a better job of persuading the jury than the defence.

"they innocently use a word that is now regarded as offensive?"

Yes, in fact. I've come across this a couple of times on threads about disability here on Mumsnet. Also, I believe this issue has been discussed on the Feminism board with regard to trans terminology. In some areas, terminology does change comparatively rapidly.

But Bird, political correctness isn't always about the law, or whether something is illegal or not. It's also about companies or organisations making decisions on what they feel should be done to avoid the government calling them out on something, or applying penalties, so companies, schools etc go too far the other way to avoid this.

You can't really blame political correctness for people being stupid!

Ah, stupidity. The last bastion where no one is worried about correct, non-insulting terminology.

You ask the question and when people give good examples of how this has affected them you just dismiss their experience. Yet have no problem assuming anyone who says this is automatically a racist or far right or whatever.

There is a big problem on social media in particular with people being absolutely vile and harassing anyone who's opinions they don't like. If it's ever happened to you you will know how upsetting it is, and the more you try to defend yourself the more nasty and personal the abuse becomes. I'm fed up with it, and nowadays I won't apologise or try to defend myself I just block.

"It's also about companies or organisations making decisions on what they feel should be done to avoid the government calling them out on something, or applying penalties, so companies, schools etc go too far the other way to avoid this."

Like what?

Bertram..
Yes he was prosecuted to an assault.. And deserved to be prosecuted.

But it was the inclusion of the charge of racially motivated hate crime that tipped the punishment to a jail sentence. It is doubtful if he would be sent to jail if he had he beaten up another white man.

"You ask the question and when people give good examples of how this has affected them you just dismiss their experience. Yet have no problem assuming anyone who says this is automatically a racist or far right or whatever."

I'm honestly not. I never mentioned racism or far rightness! But the examples people have given aren't examples of political correctness going too far, but of people making daft decisions. One of them was actually illegal- you can't blame political correctness for that!

It might be interesting to know what he said as he beat him up- an assault isn't racially motivated just because two races are involved!

But the trouble is these are decisions by individuals, but somehow political correctness is blamed. There is no law to ban nativities

Political correctness isn't about laws, its about the perception of what is or isn't acceptable.

Red tape, bureaucracy and a fear of being sued is behind a lot of it. Councils being a bit heavy-handed and it getting reported to the DM, headteachers banning conkers, competitive sports days, etc.

There's a fine line between protection and common sense. All of it uplifted to the DM with a shock horror headline, when in actuality it's probably quite rare.

I'm wondering why Bert thought all the children at the school couldn't be included in the Nativity play? It's just a play anyone can be involved surely?

Maybe I'm using the wrong terms when I refer to PC gone too far in some cases, thinking about it whenever anyone uses that phrase with me I immediately get that sinking feeling and think here we go..

But there is a problem it seems with having open honest discussion now or pointing out foolishness and sometimes I think its just all quite calculated to shut down true freedom of speech. Maybe I'm paranoid, don't know.

Thanking about my own experience of social media in particular, its always been men who have gotten really nasty with the insults, only once have I had a woman I disagreed with go that far - she was supporting a popular man on twitter and took it upon herself to track me down online and post up personal things and other platforms I'm on so they could continue to harrass me.

But usually I find its men, as soon as I 'admit' to being a feminist.

But if the school had carried on doing nativities nothing would have happened. There would have been no penalties. There is no nativity quota. That was the decision of a new head. At dc s school we have had a nativity every year for the last 10 years. No government intervention.

Some of those people will make daft decisions because they're just daft.

Some of them make daft decisions because they're living in a society where there is an emphasis on being politically correct, on semantics and terminology, and (justified) penalties for those who are failing to treat people with fair respect or equal opportunities.

The fear of the penalty is what makes them go too far the other way. It's the individual making the stupid decision, but the culture they're making it in is a contributing factor. I'm not explaining myself very well here!

At least you get to post what you really think on mumsnet.

Datun said it better while I was typing!

When I was a kid I used to use the word phrase "Red Indian". This guy objected once and told me why it was insulting (continent misnaming for a start!).

While I agree that the term "red" is offensive, "Indian" generally isn't. Many native Americans call themselves American Indian and some actively reject the term "Native American" as they feel it was assigned to them without consultation and actually some people feel that the term arose from political correctness going to far

The government agency is called The Bureau of Indian Affairs. I don't think the they would keep that name if it was grossly offensive to Native people.

"I'm wondering why Bert thought all the children at the school couldn't be included in the Nativity play? It's just a play anyone can be involved surely?"
Well, Jehova's Witnesses can't, for one group......

I understand what you are saying captain, but the fear of what penalties? There is no nativity penalty. I have worked with young people for about 20 years in a mainly white area. One service that I worked for had no one fron an ethnic minority for 8 years. I was never asked to justify this. I never worried about meeting a quota because there weren't any.