AIBU to think Political Correctness never actually went too far?

[Lessthanaballpark]

AIBU to think that as soon as Political correctness actually started to gain any traction there was a backlash against it that dampened its effect from the outset?

That as soon as the idea that people should check themselves before expressing any racist, sexist or disablist opinion an equally powerful feeling of resentment emerged to counter it and frame those do-gooders as hysterical feminazi killjoys (if female)/manginas(if male)?

That from the moment that women's rights started to have any effect on society, cries of "pussification" and "political correctness gone too far" erupted before anything actually had a chance to "go too far"? That from the privileged viewpoint of someone who is used to seeing themselves reflected in the media, sport and politics, any step towards including other groups feels like a step too far.

That it is far far far more common to hear people saying "well I know this is politically incorrect but I'm going to say it anyway" than it is for people to actually chide others for being politically incorrect.

And that this nostalgia for a time before political correctness existed incorrectly assumes that we have already reached racial/sexual equality and have gone beyond it when really we are only half way there?

But it was always intended to be framed in a pejorative way. It's an ironic term.

Giving to charity isn't PC. Being the honorary president of a charity for rights of Disabled people would put behaviour within that realm. What is PC changes over time. The term describes a debate around language that has always existed.

There is a separate term for social justice taken too far - social justice warrior. People are far more likely to complain about social justice warriors than they are to complain about PC.

OP, if you are assuming that people critiquing PC behaviour (or indeed bullying in social justice movements) are actually critiquing women's rights, then you are absolutely falling into that ideological trap. You're not looking critically at the methods used to advance an ideology, assuming that any critique of the methods is a critique of the goals of a cause.

You leave your cause very vulnerable to being co-opted by bullies, abusers and self-interested individuals, because you assume any criticism is an attack from the other side or the other tribe.

That's what happens with places like Kids' Company. Actions, organisations and social behaviours by people with beliefs like 'us' are viewed as the good people who believe in equality and are beyond reproach. Any criticism is viewed as evidence of ideological impurity on the part of the person pointing out the problem. As time goes by, the people on your side (which is deemed above criticism) attracts higher numbers of abusers, bullies and yes men, and concerned people stop supporting you.

Yes almond, exactly. And the nature of social media and the echo chamber effect of people "curating" all their online activities so they are not exposed to alternative views make it so much more pronounced.

"You're not looking critically at the methods used to advance an ideology, assuming that any critique of the methods is a critique of the goals of a cause."

Well yes I suppose that's the space I wanted to explore, the space where people who do believe in those good things have found themselves criticised for the language they use or told that the positions they hold are racist/sexist etc when they are genuinely not.

I hold my hands up and admit that I've been accused of being islamophobic when in fact I saw myself as putting women's rights first so I've felt the sting of the "thought police" so to speak. I wonder if, at the end of the day, people are more likely to see the interests of their own demographic as being under attack and so it's very hard to be objective about these things.

Oh FFS

Far too much navel gazing going on here.

Just decide what your values are and do what you can in your communities to promote that.

We could argue forever on the nuances of the definition PC. I think we all have our own internal values and judgement. As long as we are all doing something In the real world that's what matters.

My apologies. I always thought Mumsnet was the ideal place for a spot of navel gazing

I have your admit I didn't quite follow LondonNicki's post.