WWYD? Dilemma

[LemonaidLime]

I'll try to keep this brief. I have a very difficult relationship with XH. Our DD's 5 & 8 have recently (the last year or so) started becoming very reluctant to go to visitation. They give several reasons for not wanting to go and the older they have got, the more vocal they are about this. They will scream and cry at him down the phone or beg to come home if they go. It's very hard for me to hear them say these things - I'm torn between guilty that I'm not listening to their (IMO justifiable) fears and concerns and wanting them to have a relationship with their father.

I have a job interview tomorrow and as its XH's scheduled weekend, I asked him if he'd collect them from school (really rare for him to do the school run) and keep them for the weekend. However, he rang today to speak to the girls and they started screaming and crying that they don't want to go to his this weekend. They really do get quite distressed at times when they realise they have to go. I've tried talking to them about their worries and encouraged them to go, explained I have an interview etc. At one point I convinced my eldest to go if I got him to agree to take them somewhere nice (she chose a particular playgym very easy to get to) as she often complains that all they do at his is sit stuck in the house with only the tv and computer or to the local cricket club so he can get drunk while the kids play with other kids whose parents are also there. I messaged him to ask him and he basically said no, she doesn't deserve it after crying about going to his (he hates that they refuse to go and gets quite angry with them about it. Recently he turned up at the house after one such phone call and he was screaming at them through the door to come out and go to his. He also blames me for them not wanting to go as at times I have listened to them rather than forcing them.

So to my dilemma: My mother collects my nephews from nearby schools so in theory could collect the girls and they are begging me to ask her to do this so they dont have to visit their dad. Do I ask her to do this and tell XH not to bother having them that night or do I allow XH to collect them and go ahead with scheduled contact? I'm really torn on the right thing to do. I really could do with the break as I'm quite ill with a chronic condition but it breaks my heart to think of them stuck at his and desperately wanting to come home because they're bored and frightened.

WWYD?

He clearly doesn't care as he's threatening you again.
Stay strong for your children.

Distance ..courts don't necessarily see it that way .

And some argue any relationship better than none. But in this case and many the other parent can push in order
that any contact is safe and use camhs and family therapy to ensure professionals agree on best way forward eg slow and short visits and making sure dc are happy.

And report.report any aggressive behaviour so it is on record.

cestlavielife, I agree with you, unfortunately. I was only answering the OP's question in her original post, which seemed to be personal rather than legal.

OP, you are entirely justified in pushing as hard as you can to restrict or monitor your children's contact with their father as possible. This man is abusive, and it's already taking a toll on your daughters. Hope you can get professional help involved.

oh definitely..and right now as there is no contact order, it is entirely in op's hands and she can freely make that decision to protect her daughters right now...

for longer term, if he goes to court, she may come up against the other view point. but yep, for now, just make the right gut decisions..

Good luck with your interview OP

And of course, OP, record every incident, save every message, even record conversations if required. You'll need everything you can get to show that this man is not good for your children.

Hi everyone. I've come back to see all of the good luck messages - thank you so much. Finally a bit of good news, I got the job . I'm so relieved, having been out of work since June and without any financial help from him for the best part of this year, I'm down to relying on credit after busting my arse to get debt free. It takes the pressure off at least, especially with Christmas coming up.

My mum picked the girls up without issue, I'm assuming he didn't also turn up at home time. He's been calling and texting non stop though, asking if he can see them this weekend. I feel bad for ignoring him but I said what I had to say in the last text. I asked the girls again if they'd like to go but they're still adamant that they don't. I asked how they would feel having a little break from going over so we can think of some ways to make the situation better and DD1 seemed particularly relieved although she also says she never wants to go again. I often ask them what daddy could do to make them want to visit and she always says 'nothing' .

However, my BF came over this evening and we talked about it. We've been together two years now so he knows a lot about the situation. His take on it is that I'm very relaxed as a parent, and whilst he can see that XH is angry and a less than ideal parent (he was here when XH was screaming through the door) he thinks the girls primarily don't want to go because they are disciplined at his house and not enough at home. He put forward the idea that if I was stricter on them, then it would balance things out and they'd want to go. This mirrors some of what XH says (he thinks I'm too slack on them) and so I'm back to wondering if it's actually as bad as they're making out and if it could be me being part of the problem. I must say that BF is nothing like XH and has been very supportive of me so I do respect his opinion.

I also spoke to my sister and she said the most worrying thing is that he doesn't seem to want to understand the reason behind their reluctance to go which points to him being unconcerned with their welfare.

Whatever happens, I know we need some professional intervention. This is an impossible situation for me to call and at a minimum, I'm out of my depth handling DD1's mental health issues. I'm really going to push to have CAHMS and other services involved. Lots of phone calls to make on Monday!

Does your bf have kids ?
Give an example of you being slack on discipline ?

Don't doubt yourself.
Don't change either .

I

With respect you are the parent. Your boy friend is not living there (I assume? As you sat boy friend not partner and talk of him coming over) So he only sees part of the story. And has only been part of story for two years.

By all means review your own 'strictness' but not up against a man who shouts through the letter box! Review against expert opinion on parenting!

I would be far more worried he is abusing them in some way than you are not strict enough.

Please give examples of your 'low level of strictness' verses his 'strictness'.

If you feel you need to be stricter please remember and review it in the light that your kids appear traumatised. When dealing with any child who has experienced or is experiencing trauma one does, and should, patent differently.

My ds is adopted and very emotional. At times I want to shout 'Pull yourself together' eg when he bursts into tears because the swimming pool has removed the sweet machine (he is six)! We are (he is) undergoing theraplay with post adoption support. Do I know shouting 'Pull yourself together' is not the way to go!? Of course! But other parents may see me as soft. You know your kids in a way your ex and boyfriend do not.

Do not doubt yourself you are standing between them and a man who allows them/forces them not to bathe and to wear a urine smelling T-shirt, who gets drunk when meant to be supervising them, and seems to only want them around in order to stick it to you!

Be strong! And be angr, but in a controlled way, show the experts you care for the kids, and want the besr. Document everrytting!

Congratulations on the job.

Hi OP - I've read the whole thread and wanted to say congratulations on the job, and we'll done for not sending them this weekend .

The other thing I wanted to say though is that certain things you've said about your older daughter have alarmed me as they chime with some experiences I had as a child. The fact that your Ex favours your older dd, but she particularly hates him and seems unable to verbalise why, that her behaviour is otherwise poor and that she's making suicide threats, along with the question about porn (if he has bought her a laptop, WHY is he using it to access porn?!) made me slightly concerned that something more sinister may be going on in terms of potential sexual abuse.

I realise I am probably being overly sensitive and joining dots that don't exist, but I would urge you to at least consider whether you feel it is possible. I absolutely don't want to burden you or make things even more difficult, but as I say some things you've described rang bells for me and I'd hate not to mention it, however slim the possibility.

I agree, I thought possible sexual abuse from all you've mentioned.

Sorry you're going through this, your ex sounds like a nightmare. If he keeps harassing you, call the police.

mummy I am so glad you mentioned that. I felt it was possible too but as the OP had not mentioned it I did not speak up.

Please OP be cautious how you speak to your Dr about this. Do not put any ideas into her head because that would only confuse things for all of you. I am not sure what to suggest. Maybe NSPCC could be a starting point. If you do not Gove your name your call can be anonymous. If you give your name they may record it. So it really depends how much you want your call to be on the record (if you call).

I have no experience of this at all so other wiser heads may wish to say but I'd yet and just get her talking while doing some other activity and get her to talk about her dad. What they do when they go to his place etc.

I'd missed the fact he favours

How you speak to your daughter not doctor.

I'd missed the fact he favours your elder daughter. That is significant. Her anger towards her sister could be because her sister does not receive the same unwanted treatment, or it could be 100 other things!

In the nicest possible way, you are too accommodating of him. I have never been in your situation, just gleaning this from what you wrote. It's clear to me that you don't want to upset him and this is (understandably) from a place of fear. But it's also clear that you DO have strength and insight.

I think stopping ALL contact is really, really the best thing right now. You know that the girls come first and it's obvious he is not providing for them emotionally or financially. He does not have their best interests at heart. He is controlling and frightening.

I agree also don't doubt yourself based on what current BF says. Desist in sending ex lengthy emails. You've tried that, it doesn't work, there is no reasoning with him.

Short, concise non emotional communication only on what is relevant. No more. And no back and forth.

Good luck, stay strong and congrats on the new job. Time for a new you. One that fights.

LemonaidLime how are you feeling?

If you can afford to get a camera video thing trained on your front door, would it be useful to record any outbursts etc at your front door?

You mention contact with his sister, are there other family members you trust? They could facilitate contact, take the children out for a meal/trip to the park etc with their dad. That way the children get to build a relationship with him, but are not at risk from him.

I'm concerned about your BF. That's a bit undermining. Nothing about your parenting style or your children's behaviour can explain or excuse a man screaming and shouting at the door. It doesn't sound like discipline at their dad's, it sounds like controlling. A disciplined dad doesn't dress his children in old smelly clothes. Make sure you have resolved parenting style before you ever set up house with BF!

Well done on your job!

I hope you get the help you need for you & your girls Lemon. It's shocking that you've previously sought help and been refused. It seems from what you've said that your exH has transferred his abuse of you to your DDs. Phoning the NSPCC is a very good idea. I suspect there is a lot more going on than your DDs are telling you.

What a desperately difficult situation Lemon.
I have known children who don't really want to go to their dad's house for contact but there's a huge difference to not wanting to go and screaming the house down and threatening suicide!!!
As a parent, if my children felt that strongly about not seeing me, I'd be wanting to get to the bottom of it and sort it out. Not demanding that they come.
He sounds pretty dreadful to be honest and anyone who doesn't pay maintenance for their children doesn't really deserve to see them imo.

OP how are you doing?

Hi everyone, apologies for not updating sooner. I find that any stress or upset makes my condition flare up and so I was quite poorly this weekend. Luckily my mum was on hand to help out so I was able to sleep a bit extra.

If I'm honest, potential sexual abuse has crossed my mind in the sense that there's no way I can possibly know everything that happens at his house and I simply don't trust him in any respect. He is a sexual deviant in that he was a serial adulterer when we were together, sleeping with friends, trying it on with family members etc. When I was pregnant with DD1, he also had an affair with a 16 year old girl. He was mid 30s at the time. He also got with me when I was 17 although he was mid 20s at that point. Quite possibly I'm being very naive but I haven't taken this possibility too seriously as my girls are quite open with me (I like to think) and have previously told me 'secrets' he's asked them to keep from me. My DD's don't display any sexualised behaviour but I don't know if they necessarily would? I have had the NSPCC underwear rule talk with both of them and I'm very keen to hammer home the bodily autonomy message, never force affection on them and stop tickling them immediately if they say stop etc. I am quite concerned that he's allowed dd1 to see those search terms though. He should have been more careful and I'd imagine it will be seen as a safe guarding concern if she's been able to access porn at his house. I think the favouritism for DD1 possibly comes from her being a daddy's girl whereas DD2 is much more attached to me. I suppose DD1's recent reluctance is even more alarming in light of this though.

Re being too slack: I suppose I'm not the most consistent of parents but I ascribe to a 'natural consequence' method of parenting and try to pick my battles. Sometimes I do lose it with them and shout (more than I want to) but it takes quite a lot to get me to that point. I also know my DC aren't scared of me, I suppose the difference being that XH's only mode of parenting is shouting whereas I only shout as a last resort.

BF also has an 8 yo son and I'd say he's very strict. He's a good dad but he has high standards of behaviour for his son, coming down on him hard for things like interrupting adults. He sees his son as exceptionally well behaved as a result but ime he saves the bad behaviour for when his dad isn't around. I don't think our parenting styles are compatible currently and that's why I won't live with him until that changes. In my home, he follows my parenting lead. He's often been the one to talk DD down when she's having a meltdown. I know what he's getting at when he says the difference in discipline may be a factor in them not wanting to go, but you're all right, it's not the only factor. BF's DS still wants to visit his dad despite the strong discipline so it must be more than that for my DDs.

My plan of action today is to call as many agencies that could provide help as possible. I'm not one to make a fuss usually but everyone posting here has made me realise that I shouldn't take this lack of support lying down. You're all giving me the strength to stand up for my DC. I can't thank you all enough .

WWID? I would not send them to him. Let him take you to court.
Also: what Cestlavielife said.
Good luck.

definitely reach out to support.

ask to speak to the school safeguarding person - you could go and have a chat with them.

the main thing is not to send dds to see ex (as you have no court order you are under no obligation and dont need to worry about legalities ) until all issues have been addressed.

"He should have been more careful" -well duh..if it was HER laptop he should not have been using it at all for anything like this. maybe he wanted her to see it ...

good luck

Well, I'd not heard from him since Saturday but he's just called me saying he's been 'asking' (not sure who) and as I haven't stopped him seeing them for the last three years I shouldn't stop him now. I mentioned that I've had numerous concerns about the standard of care he provides and have raised it with him every time over that period. Also that they are saying they don't want to go and I won't force them. He says I should make them go. Says he will be picking them up Tuesday. No. Will be picking them up on Thursday. No. Well we will have to go to court and everyone will waste money and I'll have no choice but to stick to the court ruling. Fine, take me to court.

Good.
Kerp records of calls made to services etc

Be nothing but polite in emails texts to him

Note how dds behaviour is