Not to want to give my sister a penny...?

[MargaretElsie]

I have a sister who is five years younger than me.
She is shocking with money. Despite earning around £40k is always in the red, has borrowed (and not paid back) money off our mum, grandparents and brother along with my dad - this comes to over £15000, over a long period of time. During the time I have been living near her, she has had over seven new cars, lots of holidays and mini breaks and frequently 'treats' herself (expensive to maintain hairstyles, new outfits, beauty treatments etc.) Despite the impression I am probably giving, she is actually great in most ways but awful with money. Nobody can discuss it with her without tears and shouting and inevitable door slamming so it's now pretty much ignored.

She lives in a small rented house with her DH and twins (her credit rating is such than she was turned down for a mortgage on a £100k house and her husband is bankrupt) after being evicted from a large one she could not afford and is very resentful of the fact that me and DH have managed to buy two houses with the money we made from selling up in London.

We also (we moved back to Yorkshire) have quite a lot in the bank which we plan to use for any work we may need to do on the places we buy or just simply to keep in an account as a backup. My sister knows what we sold our house for, and what we have bought the two subsequent one's with and so know's roughly what we have in the bank.

Now she is dropping more and more hints about deposits and how they 'will never own our own home.' She appears to think that the house buying system is stacked against her rather than she is in the position she is in due to her awful spending (she is now 40, but has been like this ever since she turned 18.)

I don't want to get into a proper discussion with her about it as it will end in high drama (otherwise talking about it would sound the most sensible approach) but I do not think that she deserves yet another helping hand, even if we do have plenty of money in the bank (for the first time ever, I might add!)

She has had plenty of help, and never learns from her previous mistakes. She also earns enough, even without including her DH who also works albeit for less money, to surely be able to live well but also save for the future. I also think that she needs to learn herself and take responsibility.

AIBU?

She's not your responsibility. Further, until she manages to get her financial management in order, you would be just throwing good money after bad.

YADNBU

If forced to discuss it and feeling particularly generous, you could decide that if she genuinely sorts out her attitude to money and habits, and demonstrates that by paying back all the money she owes to family, paying off all other debts, and saving a reasonable amount, you will gift her a certain amount towards a deposit, or you will out aside £1000 each to add to house deposits for her children in the distant future.

Look up sources of advice and/or courses on money management. If she asks for help, say "Sure" and pass over the contact details.

No way, no way, no way!

She's been a feckless idiot with money for over 20 years, owes thousands to other family members which it doesn't look like they'll see again .

Not a chance.

YADNBU

It won't be paid back and she's a cheeky git for hinting.

If she does ask say no. If she asks why say 'because I said no'. Repeat until it goes in.

If your sister was working hard AND saving hard but just couldn't raise enough of a deposit because she was paying massive rents then Id say YABU not to lend her a bit towards the deposit to get them off the hamster wheel of prices outstripping their deposit.
That is not your sisters position though. Could you be sure she'd actually keep up the mortgage payments and if the house was repossessed you'd lose your money.
I think you just have to become very dim when she's dropping hints and if she asks outright just say no, it's tied up in long term investments so cannot be touched.

My BIL owes well over £50k (that the family know about) and at one point we were considering bailing him out (currently savings of about £2m).

Unfortunately for him we found out from DW's parents that he was still spending it like water despite being on various debt management plans etc and had just tried to chat them up for £5k.

We didn't bail him out, he lost his house etc and it all went to shit for a couple of years. He now seems to have woken up and is paying debts down, drives a more modest car and generally doesn't act like it grows on trees.

Gotta be cruel to be kind sometimes.

'Helping' people like this does nothing but enable them. Do yourself a favour and act obliviyto her hints. She got herself in to this shit storm so she's got to get herself out of it.

Oblivious! Wtf is Obliviyto? Sounds like a Harry Potter spell.

No way should you give her a single penny. Look after your own childrens futures with your nest egg.

Not only would the money not be paid back, she might well lose the lot. I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't see her homeless, I would reluctantly bail her out if push came to shove, but I certainly wouldn't help her with a deposit when she's done nothing to help herself and hasn't demonstrated she would be able to pay the ongoing mortgage and not get repossessed.

YANBU nor is your post a stealth boast about how good you are with money. . You have made choices to do without some things to get others. Your sister has wanted to have it all. She won't change and you have no responsibility to give her any of your money.

Not a penny.

But do stop talking about your own financial position. No one needs to know that you own two houses or how much you spent on them. I have never had a conversation with anyone about how much I've spent on my house or even that I also own a holiday house (don't want people thinking they have some right to use it!).

OMG! If you weren't in the UK, I'd swear you were my BFF! Her sister is just like yours and her parents aren't much better.

She and her DH keep their finances well hidden. They work hard and are comfortable. They have a few 'toys' that they enjoy and take little trips but she won't post pictures on FB for fear that her sister will see them and ask for money expect a handout. If she says no she complains to their parents who take BFF to task for being selfish! They actually have a 'junky' car they drive up to see her family rather than their 'usual' car.

I second a PP's suggestion that you ignore any hints and if you are directly asked say that your money is in timed investments or annuities for your retirement and you don't have access to it.

YANBU - you won't ever get it back.

I live by the "only lend what you can afford to lose".

No way. Nope. Definitely not until she has at least paid your family members back.

You are not U to do nothing. However, if you felt compelled to do something, you could buy a house and rent to her - capital value retained by you, but helps her as rental could be cheaper than she pays now. You will need a proper rental agreement and may need to evict her if she stops paying, so may not be a great idea.

Call me cynical but:

1. She hasn't asked you for any money
2. You have started a thread to boast about your wealth

Are you Donald Trump?

I think renting to her would be a massive mistake. You cannot guarantee she would pay rent (clearly she has form for not paying things). She would say she could get you back and since you're 'family' and not a proper landlord in her eyes she would think she could get away with it.

Stay well away from renting to family.

Basket, I think OP has every right to feel pleased with herself. She has made some good decisions and improved her lot. Good for her.
We live like church mice most of the time, in order to be debt free and pay for a pretty crappy modest little house and life style, albeit one which, by design, affords us plenty of free time. My sister is like yours, and has a complete blind spot wrt money. I think in her case it is exacerbated by a sense of it being "too late" to save for a deposit, so won't consider putting some by for a rainy day either, however little. Currently unemployed, she insists on shopping at Waitrose, as it 'preserves her dignity' and relies on our pensioner mum to pay her utility bills, while blaming her for not raising her to be more money-savvy. DSis is in her 50s . Should add that she is great in every other way.

I'm all for helping family but sometimes you have to be smart about how you help the financially irresponsible.

Any money you lend her you can write off as you won't get it back.
If you rent to her....well, let's just say that's a recipe for disaster if she isn't the sort you can have a reasonable and mature discussion with.
What happens if they default on rent? You'll be painted as the villain if you tell them to move out make them homeless-.

Nah. Next time she drops a hint just tell her straight "Sorry sis but we don't have money to lend/it's tied up in trusts for the kids".

I don't find your post braggy at all, OP.... if anything I find it creepy that your sister has mentally totted up all the amounts from your house sales and purchases and figured out how much 'spare' cash you might have lying around. Who does that?!

I'd continue to pointedly any hints, and if she ever does get up the cheek to outright ask for money, all you have to say is, "Oh I am sorry, but that money is our savings for the future." Put a very slight emphasis on 'our'. Continue to repeat "No, I'm afraid that's our savings for the future." Ignore any drama that follows, which it almost certainly will. It is a common characteristic of people who can't take responsibility for their own lives to cause drama when other people refuse to take responsibility for them instead.

She's 40 years old, she will never change, it's your money, don't get involved with any conversations and DO NOT feel any guilt, she needs to grow up

Enjiying a massive, unearned property windfall isn't really something to be pleased with yourself about.

You lucked out in the nation's most stacked casino.

Feel lucky, don't feel virtuous.

I wouldn't give her any money either FWIW.

Unless she learns how to manage money, she won't get anywhere in life. I say this from bitter experience. DH getting ill was a huge lesson for us in financial management, and nobody bailed us out ( not that we asked anyone to). We are luckily at the other end, and dont buy anything unless we can afford it.
And still manage holidays and weekends away by saving.
She can save for a deposit like everyone else and improve her credit rating by paying things on time. It will repair itself but she needs to work on it. Dont lend her a penny.