To not let my DF bring sick friend to visit?

[hateadulting]

This is a really tricky one as I desperately don't want to hurt my DF. He has been through a lot but he's quiet an unaware person and subtle hints don't work with him. We live about an hour away from each other and in general get along with him.

Lately he's been calling every Sunday morning to ask if he can bring an old family friend up to see us. Let's call old family friend Roger. Roger is the most forward, eccentric person I think I know. In general he's friends but he has neveer seemed quiet right to me. I started noticing when I was a teenager that he's extremely touchy feely. He'll constantly hug or hold me and want to kiss me. I don't know if this is normal as anyone who knows me is well aware that I dislike people being in my personal bubble. I'm just not very uncomfortable with it.

One thing I know for sure is not normal is that often when he hugs/ holds me he touches smacks my bum. I honestly feel sick typing this out and I'm panicking thinking I'm inevitably going to have to see him some time soon. I remember being an uncomfortable 10 year old and going to my room when he'd arrive as he'd comment on my legs if I was wearing shorts or whatever.

So far I've used excuses such as christenings and illnesses to avoid this. I feel terribly guilty and as if I'm letting my dad down. Apparently roger can't wait to see me again and meet my 22 month old DD. Roger has cancer and is getting treatment so I really feel as if I can't deny him seeing me for that reason!

Sorry this is so long. I just want to know if I'm being an horrible bitch for not letting a sick man visit and lying to my DF.

I work in a cancer hospital. Cancer doesn't discriminate. We see all sorts of people. Just because Roger has cancer doesn't excuse his behaviour past, present or future. He is a sly and clever predator and you have realised this. You may not be able to convince your DF of this; the only reaction to this you can control is your own. DF may have difficulty processing it all as he's been minimising and excusing the situation for a long time. Keep your stance as no contact with this Roger. Be strong for your daughter and yourself. You have all of MN behind you!

Did your dad realise you were talking about him groping you when you were a child not now?

Now you know how your dad feels it is much easier to say you are not having your DD groped by pervert who doesn't respect people's boundaries.

I'm sorry to hear your dad wasn't more sympathetic. However, if anything good has come out of this, it's that you no longer have to find excuses to say no to the visit. If your dad is embarrassed at telling Roger 'no', tough luck - it's his problem now.

For any future discussions of this, I would be saying 'So Roger's feelings are more important to you than mine, is that it?' and 'I've made my views very clear. I don't want him coming to my house'. Repeat that last one as many times as you need to.

I think some kind of assertiveness course would be a good idea for you too. Even if someone isn't dodgy or an abuser, you have the right to refuse to have anyone in your house that you don't want there. You get to choose who touches you and who doesn't, always, even if they're perfectly nice. Believe in your right to decide that.

Well done, for speaking out to your DF. I'm so saddened for you that you did not get the supportive attitude that you deserve now or then. I can't claim to fully understand the cultural conditions that allowed abusers to get away with it but know of so many similar incidents by Irish friends. I've also come across a similar compliance with authority figures in other deeply religious communities. This makes children very vulnerable, as they may not get the support from their own families, with so much conditioning. But inappropriate behaviour seems to have been so endemic until so recently and many women were putting up with it. I am incredibly lucky that I have a very fiery mother who made it clear that no one, even authority figures were allowed to touch me inappropriately or act otherwise pervy around me from as early as I can remember. I am still so proud of her for dumping an entire salad bowl over the head of some grabby distant relative who touched her bum. She taught me, be loud, make a scene and embarrass the sexual predator as publicly as possible.

Some people - I think especially older people - are very used to accepting 'how things are' and it upsets them when someone points out that actually, it's very wrong. He will be feeling defensive because by extension his behaviour is wrong too. And he won't want to face up to the fact that he didn't protect you as a child. If he can frame you as being wrong then he won't have to think about things he doesn't want to think about...

Stick to your guns. Without a heartfelt apology don't consider letting him babysit your DD - without an acknowledgement that his DF is wrong you can't be sure that he wouldn't try to arrange for him to meet her to 'prove' you wrong. Your child deserves to be protected, as you did. Don't let him project his anger and guilt onto you.

Hateadulting - well done for talking to your dad about this. Do you think that, now the silence has been broken, you could talk to him again, and be more direct this time?

Ask him if he would be happy for this man to touch his beloved granddaughter's bottom, grope her, smack her bottom? That might bring it home to him.

And if it doesn't, I would tell him bluntly that smacking someone's bottom when they don't want it smacked, is sexual abuse, and that his friend is a sexual abuser - and you don't want a sexual predator around your daughter - that you intend to protect her better than he protected you!

Well done OP for dealing with your dad. I'm sorry he's still minimising Roger's behaviour .

All you can do now is stand your ground. If your dad raises it again (and I'm almost certain he will) I think your language should be a little blunter, along the lines of "he groped me when i was a child and I couldn't do anything about it then, but I can do something about it now and that 'something' is to refuse to have him anywhere near me."

Do not allow your dad to manipulate you on this, he will probably try. As has already been said, to accept Roger is a perv is to accept that he didn't protect his wife and children; that's what he's really struggling with.

Is his name actually Roger? Because I know a man called Roger who is just like this: touchy feely in unpleasant ways, no understanding for personal boundaries, and inappropriate around young girls (young teens mainly) but not in a massive way that you could call him on.

I am no longer in contact with him, due to the way he treated a good friend of mine when she was in her teens. He never did anything to me, but then I'm in my 30s and probably am not so attractive, nor so easily to manipulate.

I told him exactly why I didn't want to have contact with him anymore. He denied all knowledge and put it about that I had issues with anyone who wanted to be a good friend to people in trouble (my friend had a complicated home life, which he completely took advantage of) and made me out to be the bad guy.

If your dad won't cope with hearing how you feel about the guy, then I would suggest you do what a PP suggested, and just keep making excuses - be busy, poorly, unavailable for as long as possible. Don't put yourself or your daughter in a vulnerable position.

The thing to take from this is your father CANNOT be trusted to be left alone with your daughter especially while this guy is still in his life.

I rather suspect you're not telling us everything he did when you were a child (I've worked with survivors and it's completely common and understandable and absolutely your right). So your father has basically put a sex offenders feelings above those of his daughter AND his granddaughters safety. That attitude is VERY dangerous.

'Roger's really eager to visit.'

I bet he is!

ToothPowder that is horrible, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's so unfair that in general it was the norm to brush things under the carpet when it involved 'pillars of the community' and figures of authority

I agree that I'm going to have to be more serious with my DF in regards to some issues. He's oblivious to safe guarding and general things which I would imagine are common sense. He just doesn't think about them and certainty would never question or challenge a 'figure of authority'.

JayoftheRed no I just randomly thought of the name he sounds like a horrid but clever man. It just clicked with me today after a pp mentioned that creeps like this pull these stunts when they no nobody else is watching

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius I think I'm going to have to Call him back in the next couple of days as today's phone call just sort of ended and from previous experience my DF usually just acts like nothing happened a couple of days after. I want to make sure I really stress my point and he gets it.

Fuck that. Some creep grabs your arse, too right he's not welcome in your home! WTAF.

Imagine if he did this to your daughter, what would you say to her?

He's old, he's ill, makes not a jot of difference.

The answer is no, plain and simple.

I always remember an uncle of mine wanted to kiss me goodbye when I was around 14 - just the look in his eye made me feel so sick. I pretended to be busy drinking tea to avoid him.

You and your daughter should be your father's priority. Not this man. You're right Roger is sick. He's a sick bastard. If you feel too cowed by your family to stand up for yourself please do it for your daughter.