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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not pay for a school trip

97 replies

Jupiter2Mars · 10/11/2016 12:17

Ds2 has an upcoming trip through school. As usual, it needs to be paid for.

TBH Its under £10 but even at that price its a waste of money. I remember when DS1 went on it. He came back in a really bad mood because it was such a difficult, boring day - think 5 hours in a church spent contemplating.

What will happen if I don't pay for Ds2? I know he'll get nothing out of it, so if the school don't let him go, then that's fine, I think.

OP posts:

Timetogetup0630 · 10/11/2016 12:40

Ah, he's a teenager !
And I bet they aren't allowed to have their phones on ?
Well then it's bound to be lame and boring !
I think you should send him. It's good preparation for being an adult, waiting at airports for a delayed flight, sitting in exams when you have finished well before time etc.

DesolateWaist · 10/11/2016 12:44

Now, he's decided he's an atheist.

He did a lot of contemplating then.

Matchingbluesocks · 10/11/2016 12:44

Don't get this- never heard of such a thing and I am a convent girl and church goer- just because you attend church doesn't mean you should or want to sit in a church contemplating for 5 hours just because you go to church you don't have to do everything they think is a good idea. Do you have any idea how disorganised and bonkers some churches are? Ours is nuts, I wouldn't dream of spending all day doing what they say. Despite generally enjoying being part of it

Trifleorbust · 10/11/2016 12:44

Well there will be, OP. It's a faith school. Nothing wrong with the trip itself - you just want to opt out because you think it's boring. Do that, but I don't see what there is to complain about. Plenty of kids will go and may well get something out of it. No skin off your nose.

DesolateWaist · 10/11/2016 12:49

Its 5 hours having spiritual conversations.

That is a lot different to quiet contemplation. I wonder if he DS1 had difficult conversations.

Minniemagoo · 10/11/2016 12:50

Feel free to opt out but you would then be unreasonable to expect the school to look after your child that day. Keep him off.

Original poster

Jupiter2Mars · 10/11/2016 12:50

No, phones will not be permitted, of course, they won't! However, that's the school rule all day every day, so its not a new experience.
TBH I don't know what Ds1 hated about it so much. He was very stressed afterwards and I was sayign things liek "well, its over now" and "somethings in life are just boring".

Ds1 has always been able to handle boredom and activities not being about him. Its never been an issue before. Sometimes, people have felt sorry for my dc when I've expected them to sit still and behave for extended periods when they were really young. But they've done it anyway.

Ds1 really wasn't able to describe to me what the issue was. He was really angry. Since it was too late to do anything about it, as it was already over, I didn't upset him by making him describe it in lots of detail. I got the gist and then just suggested he focus on forgetting about it.

OP posts:

Isitjustmeorisiteveryoneelse · 10/11/2016 12:51

There's probably quite a lot of us that went to faith schools that have now decided we're atheists tbh. Not a coincidence I think. Don't you get the letter from school stating something like 'if we don't have enough people paying for this trip before deadline date, we may have to cancel it for all' to guilt trip you in to paying? We do.

FV45 · 10/11/2016 12:53

You'll have to complete a consent form for the trip, so just don't.

confuugled1 · 10/11/2016 12:53

Even if it's a church school, and I was a member of the church - I would be hugely hacked off if they took kids on a school trip out of their education for a day of contemplation for christmas rather than something that was properly educational.

Being at a church school should mean that the assemblies talk about the religion, there's a decent nativity play or a carol concert, not that they waste a day. Being against a single trip doesn't mean that you are against a whole school's ethos (eg dc go to an excellent school but I was very that they sent one year on a school trip to Kidzania this year - would have been fine as the end of school treat after SATS but not as a mid year trip when there are so many amaxing places they could go that would really enhance one of the topics they were studying. Doesn't mean I'm going to pull dc out of the school though. )

I'd just tell the school that you were very unimpressed by the quality of the trip when ds1 went, that you don't agree with it and that you do not give ds2 permission to go.

Days of contemplation about Christmas are things that a parent can do with their dc if they want to, they are certainly not things that a school should inflict on their pupils at the expense of a decent day's education.

MatildaTheCat · 10/11/2016 12:55

He should go. It's part of the school's ethos. You have it on the word of your other teenager that it was boring and useless. I doubt they sat in silence for 5 hours.

What he means is, I didn't like it so I'm in a bad mood. Tough news is that we all have to do stuff we consider boring or difficult. If you pull him out you are giving him a terrible example that he can opt out of anything he doesn't like.

He might get something out of the trip even if he doesn't recognise it at the time. If not, nobody ever died from boredom.

Original poster

Jupiter2Mars · 10/11/2016 12:57

Silence - it wasn't silent. It was mostly verbal, as I understand it. Silent would have been easier.

OP posts:

Trifleorbust · 10/11/2016 12:58

We went on similar trips and actually the majority of us found them very fulfilling. 'Spiritual' is a broad umbrella term, so it may be that this time is for contemplation of self, relationships, self-image, ambitions, etc., not just an excuse to bible-bash the kids for 5 hours. Maybe try to find out more about the trip before deciding?

KurriKurri · 10/11/2016 12:59

I used to be forced into spiritual conversations at school during RE etc. And I often felt very angry afterwards - things I was told were for example that my parents must have been evil in a former life to have had a disabled child (my brother) at this point I walked out of the lesson and refused to ever go back to them. There is some sick shite spouted in the name of religion.

It is quite possible that your DS1 was told something or heard views that he found deeply offensive (depending on what the religion is some have views I find extremely prejudiced intolerant and vile), and that may be what made him angry and upset.

I can say that faith school made me anti most organised religion, and made me actively atheist.

RiverTam · 10/11/2016 13:00

Given that you have no idea what the trip really consisted of or why your DS1 didn't like it, and you didn't take it further with the school at the time, I'd just let DS2 go, they're not the same person and he might enjoy it. You never know, other parents might have bothered to give feedback so it may have changed anyway.

Manumission · 10/11/2016 13:00

How do you make a party of DC sit still for 5 hours, nevermind oblige them to contemplate?

Original poster

Jupiter2Mars · 10/11/2016 13:01

If the school wants me to keep him at home, that day, rather than educate him, then that's ok with me.

TBH I just don't want DS2 to go through what Ds1 went through.

I don't want anyone else to have to pay his share either.

There's no permission form though as the school do a comprehensive one at the start of each year and it covers more or less everything.

OP posts:

ErrolTheDragon · 10/11/2016 13:03

Now, he's decided he's an atheist

Oh, well not such a wasted trip then.

You should probably raise your concerns that it was a wholly negative experience for your DS1 and ask for an explanation of the educational content. Then discuss with your Ds2 and see if he wants to go. You have a perfect right to opt out of any religious component which you aren't comfortable with.

confuugled1 · 10/11/2016 13:05

I cross posted with lots of posts so hadn't seen your post to say that this was the thing that turned ds1 into an atheist.

As they are a church school and as you are relugious, I'd throw the cat among the pigeons and say that you do not give permission for ds2 to go on the trip because whatever happened when ds1 went not only caused him a lot of mental angst but that it caused him to actively reject the religion that he was previously tootling along in perfectly happily. As a result you do not want ds2 to go because you do not him to experience the stress nor do you want to risk him renouncing his as a result of an ill thought out school trip.

Then sit back and watch the fireworks.... (Having first put something in to ensure they don't harrass ds1 about his views).

Original poster

Jupiter2Mars · 10/11/2016 13:09

Manumission - good question! I've no idea how you make them all sit still. The school is hot on discipline and obviously, self-discipline, but I don't know if the fact that its the way things are done is enough fo an answer.

I know the bit about how to make them contemplate though, having endured that myself a few times. There's a short talk about something, the everyone is put into groups of 5 or 10. They are instructed to take it in turn to comment on what they just heard and add their own experiences and thoughts to it. Then everyone has a group discussion about the subject and everyone else's ideas etc. Obviously, you need to be respectful of someone else's views. To make sure it stays on track, someone wonders around each huddle listening into bits of the conversations.

I don't know that this is how they do it, but its what I've seen elsewhere and it is likely that its something similar. I found it very uncomfortable when i had to do it, but looking at everyone else's faces, i don't think anyone wanted to be there either. We were all doing it because we had to.

OP posts:

Trifleorbust · 10/11/2016 13:10

OP, they are educating him. Spiritual education is part and parcel of what a faith school is set up to do. If you don't like it, don't send him on the trip but you are wrong to imply that the school is somehow failing him. You signed up to their vision of what education should look like, and that involves faith-based education. I suspect they will say you need to send him into school and he just won't go on the trip.

catkind · 10/11/2016 13:11

Can you ask for a chat with his form teacher? Say this trip really disturbed your DS1, find out a little more about what is involved, and decide if you want DS2 to attend, and ask what the arrangements are if you don't want him to attend? To be honest it sounds too personal to be something I'd want to share with schoolmates, religious or otherwise.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to withdraw him if you want to. If they try to stand on ceremony (and I can't see why they would) you could for example temporarily withdraw consent for trips, or temporarily exercise your right to withdraw him from RE/acts of worship.

SerendipityPhenomenon · 10/11/2016 13:13

I think I can begin to understand why your son felt angry. We had compulsory church when I was at school, and I used to sit there wondering why we had to waste so much time going through these rituals, why people couldn't worship in their own time rather than fetching up at church at set times and going through set forms of words, and why the vicar couldn't increase his repertoire of the same four or five sermon subjects revisited over and over again. I resented having to go on and on about how wonderful God was - I couldn't understand why we had to be so sycophantic. And I got particularly angry about nonsense like God creating suffering to make us better people, and the implication that if anyone wasn't a member of the church they were inferior. I remember my irritation reaching its peak with the Nunc Dimittis and the realisation that singing "Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace" didn't actually mean we could bugger off. So I can well see how having to sit through several hours of that would infuriate any child.

Yes, I'm another one who became an atheist notwithstanding years of attempted indoctrination.

Hassled · 10/11/2016 13:14

You could point out to the school that the outcome of their faith-based trip was that one of your DCs lost his faith, and ask if that was their intention. You could really milk it - you can't bear the thought of losing another child to the heathens, etc etc.

DesolateWaist · 10/11/2016 13:14

This is very different to the sitting in a church in silence that you made it sound like.

To me this sounds like a very valuable day.

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