Is the mother who refuses access a bad mother

[martinisandcake]

I may have had one too many martinis but my partner is the father of an 20month old daughter who his is seeing fortnightly for one hour at an interrelate centre because him mother is angry about their separation.

She believes he should be punished for leaving her.

He left because of her Mh problems and her $200000 debt which he eventually refused to pay.

Her punishment is to withhold contact with his daughter.

Am I wrong in thinking this makes her a bad mother?

Speaking as an emotionally and physically abusive mother who abuses my children and beat my ex and left him in thousands of pounds worth of debt and am now withholding contact just to be a dick I strongly suspect your ex is lying

Needsasockamnesty, it would have to be pretty extreme behaviour for the courts to transfer residence. They will usually maintain the status quo. Mental health issues can span the full range- we don't know what particular problems this mother has. Courts are usually slow to order psych reports unless there is a clear history of severe mental illness (e.g. history of sectioning, suicide attempts etc.

I really don't think he should be criticised for removing himself from a toxic environment. It is better for the child that the parents are apart if they do not get on. However, the child has the right to a full relationship with both parents, unless it can be shown that this would be harmful.

There's a third possibility too; That there was fault on both sides, then the life-changing experience of having a baby finished off the relationship and there was general acrimony in both directions. If he's been at all nasty (even if he wasn't the only one) she might be having a 'circle the wagons' response. Don't underestimate the ferocious protective instincts of a new mother, NOR how nasty a divorce between otherwise decent people can get.

People take up positions, feel betrayed, feel the rug's been pulled from under them and lose all trust.

It's best to try and build bridges rather than demonise things said and done in the worst year of someone's life.

The debate? Bit serious there

I know I made it up. It's an example of what the other side of the story could be. It's so common that the new girlfriend is told a load of rubbish about a crazy ex, I wanted to imagine what the reality was (and probably is!).

DidIjustgerwinkpointshitscanned I've loved this live I posted my story on page 2 your not far off its so easy for men to make the mother the villain especially when speaking to a new or potential partner they sell themselves they aren't going to hold their hands up and admit they haven't been the best.

Oooh. See, my DH's ex did the opposite. She left DSD with DH and fucked off with new boyfriend drinking to party. (all recorded by HV) 4 months later she resumed contact. DH admirably did not refuse contact in any way, simply requested a 50/50 informal custody agreement which is still in place today. We are still paying her debts also.

But still ExW refers to herself as primary carer and told everyone how DH left her, a single mother violins playing We spend a lot of time picking up the emotional pieces (EA of DSD but SS wont get involved)

So it can swing both ways. I agree with the OP in principle, any parent who uses their child as a pawn is emotionally abusive and a 'bad' parent. There are exceptions of course, but ultimately you have to think of the child who needs both parents. If you cant agree, go to court as the OP's OH is doing.

Also when I met DH (two years after he split from ExW) I did my research and found out the truth for myself. We live in a small community so pretty easy!

Speaking as an emotionally and physically abusive mother who abuses my children and beat my ex and left him in thousands of pounds worth of debt and am now withholding contact just to be a dick I strongly suspect your ex is lying

OK, but this is only based on your own personal experience. It could be that the OP's partner is lying. It could be that the mother is implacably hostile to contact. Not all resident mothers are saints, not all non-resident fathers are feckless, lying dickheads who would be a risk to their children if they had unsupervised contact. The truth (which we will never know for sure) might be that blame for the relationship breakdown can be laid at both parties' feet. Ultimately, that isn't really important and nor is the debt. The important question is whether this father poses a risk to his child. If he does not, he should have unsupervised contact regardless of who racked up debts. If he does pose a risk, the courts need to deal with it accordingly.

You won't have been told the full story, that's for sure, OP.

If you attend hearings with him, and the final court hearing (not sure if they allow that?) then I'd advise you to keep your ears open, and be alert to the fact there may be some truth in his ex's side of things. As the whole story comes out, you might revise your opinion.

We had a very lengthy, traumatic journey through the Family Courts with my ex a number of years ago, and the upshot was he was one of the less than 1% of men who was denied any direct contact. The courts didn't come to that decision lightly. They bent over backwards infact, to accomodate my ex but it became increasingly clear he was a nutjob. Had he had a new girlfriend in tow, I have no doubt she would have been loyal and seen me as the villain.

Why do you think the debts were purely her's? Where was he when that happened? Did he leave her short of money to care for the child? Did she have an unusual level of dependency on him that left her vulnerable?

I'd be a bit more open minded. She will be the one picking up the bill for the kids no doubt (My ex paid not a penny in maintenance, never has, and the CSA claimed he didn't exist and they couldn't find him. Took me under 1 second to find his full address on Google, and little more to find out about his exciting adventures on permanent holiday in Italy, on FB).

Even if he does pay - it won't come close to what it costs to raise a kid.

Is spending time with him even healthy for the child, if he is so negative about the child's mother?

Start asking yourself hard questions. I'd trust the court process to make the right decision. I'd use this time it's going through to drill down on the reality of the case. Rather than the self serving version your partner appears to have told you.

I am one of those mothers, you know, the crazy, mentally unstable ex who is withholding contact. According to my ex-h, I continue to make up "fabricated lies" about his behaviour, "everybody" people who don't know me at all confirm that I am "mentally unstable" and that I am beating my ASD DS regularly and leaving him "covered in injuries" which have been "documented with the AUTHORITIES" no less. Those who have examined my DS beg to differ.

I stopped my ex's contact with DS in August of this year. A hugely thought out decision taken after I sought professional advice. His behaviour had long been having a negative impact on DS (who I have to say, adores his father but isn't old enough, at 5, to understand what his father is doing). Behaviour towards DS and indeed towards me from both ex and OW escalated to an intolerable level and I felt I simply had no choice as my DS was no longer safe in ex's care. He has limited once a week supervised contact but still continues to drip poison in DS's ear and clearly doesn't give a shit about the impact on him. Strangely, he seems very reluctant to make a court application though, despite me being "not fit to be his DS's mother", an abuser, mentally ill and everything else he can throw at me.

OP, I really would take what your partner says about his ex with a pinch of salt, as you can see from this thread, we all have mental health problems and are all being nasty to our poor hard done by ex's. As the baby is only 20 months old, you must be fairly new in his life. I would butt out and let the court system do its' job. Bear in mind that one day, you'll likely be the crazy, bitter, mad ex left holding the baby....

I'm shocked that you seem to think EW is in the wrong when you DP only wants to see his kid half a day a week... Personally I wouldn't want to be with a 'father' who only spends what 4 to 6 hours with their child? What if you have kids with him and he walks out? Do you want that for your children?
Surely if he thinks they are going to be struggling financially he will want to provide more so for his child? It's not the child's fault his EW is in debt. And surely he doesn't want his child spending the vast majority of her life and main role model as someone who is emotionally and physically abusive and is struggling with apparently severe mental health problems (is her illness really that bad? If so is she really safe/able to take care of a child?)... All this would make me worry and question what he has said.

All that said and done, if I had a child and the 'father' only wanted minimal contact then I would push for that to be as minimal as possible. I would expect if I did have children my DP would want as much contact as possible, and would expect 50|50 as much as possible. Otherwise I wouldn't be with him.

Posted a bit early... But yes I do know mothers who use the threat of contact and contact centres as 'punishment' if the father doesn't bend to their every will which is totally wrong. And if that is the case I would be doing everything possible to find out exactly why social services or whatever think it's the best use of their limited time and finances to support this. Surely there must be some reason, even if it's the mother making false allegations?

Needsasockamnesty, it would have to be pretty extreme behaviour for the courts to transfer residence. They will usually maintain the status quo. Mental health issues can span the full range- we don't know what particular problems this mother has. Courts are usually slow to order psych reports unless there is a clear history of severe mental illness (e.g. history of sectioning, suicide attempts etc

So you don't think the op used MH issues as a legit extreme reason for her apparently perfectly decent parent partner to leave the family home when a younger than 8 week baby is involved?

One would think they would have to be very serious for that to happen.

Or ofcourse it's just an excuse to try and make him sound like a better parent and the info was not even worthy of mentioning

why has he only been granted limited supervised access
No doubt the same reason many fathers get this treatment. False allegations.
In family law the mother is favoured.
I go to family court regular and it still shocks me with the amount of sexist orders put into place based solely on what the mother says ... 😕 I feel very sad for many fathers and the children that go through this it is not fair at all and should be changed.

Posted a bit early... But yes I do know mothers who use the threat of contact and contact centres as 'punishment' if the father doesn't bend to their every will which is totally wrong. And if that is the case I would be doing everything possible to find out exactly why social services or whatever think it's the best use of their limited time and finances to support this. Surely there must be some reason, even if it's the mother making false allegations

My experance is very different.

I see many many mothers placing children at risk because they fail to understand the risk regarding contact with abusers because 'ohh but he's the dad, I don't want my child to say I blocked contact when their older' and these are mothers who are risking court action by the LA for being unable to protect their child from the abusive other parent

Ive seen convicted abusers where their children have been exposed to harm and are at risk of serious future harm go through a system and be granted unsupervised contact either straight away or after a very very short time supervised.

It happens a lot, I have seen growing trends of DA and CA minimised by the family courts when it comes to child arangements orders to such an extent that womans aid have been campaigning on the issue for some time now.

Pains me to say it because I have previously been a fierce advocate for my previous experances of the courts taking things seriously and actually helping but IME its true there has been a huge reversal in their protective actions

Would you do that if it was a woman asking for advice?

It is a woman asking for advice, unless the OP is gay.

One thing is for sure, OP, there are umpteen recommendations to stay away from men who talk badly about their exes.

Hello thank you for all your responses, and I see a few of you have your big judgy pants on too drinking after work on a Wednesday, appealing and irresponsible behaviour, honestly!

The point was that regardless of the mother and her feelings towards the father, why should she be able to restrict that contact, if it is not in the best interest of the child she is simply being selfish and selfish again.

This is nothing more than a 40 something (so not a young girl who doesn't have any life experience) who is angry about the break up and is punishing him in the most terrible way.

There is no danger to the child, relationships break down, of course there are three sides to every story and I'm sure she tells quite a different one. It isn't my business and I don't really care for the details but he is in my life and I am a support for him and inevitably things are happening along the way and we talk over them.

I was frustrated at the situation and rather than engage in venting about her to him I took my poor judgement and planned it on MN

I know lots of your responses are based in your own sometimes difficult histories and I perhaps should have been clearer in my title.

Yes he has an excellent family lawyer, yes they have now had two interim hearings where the interim orders for contact were laid out but sadly the court system is so full of these cases each court date is approx 6-8 months between.

No judge would have taken that child and expected 50/50 custody at such a young age and the contact plan suggested is one with increasing contact as the child gets older with an eventual plan of 5050

OP, the judge clearly didn't agree otherwise there wouldn't have been an interim order of supervised contact. Sorry. I don't think anybody had their "judgey pants" on as you put it, and neither am I sure who you are referring to in terms of drinking on a Wednesday. No situation like this is remotely amusing, take it from me. I am sorry but your partner does not come out well from this at all, he leaves his partner who he claims is physically abusive and has mental health issues with a newborn baby, yet she is being unreasonable? Like I said, I wonder how long it will be until it's your turn.

oooh i see lots of judgy pants, even one poster completely making up the exw side of the story to place all the fault of dp, MN at its best. Im just surprised no ones asked you if you were the OW yet

I denied contact for a short time. I denied contact because my ex pissed off and left a then 17 month old toddler for a period of 7 months without so much as a phone call, let alone facetime or skype or anything else that modern technology allows. Apparently it was up to me to make contact with him and bring said toddler to him (350 miles away), not his responsibility at all to keep in touch with his own children.

When he did finally make contact, he demanded to be allowed to take toddler for a period of 14 days without any re-introduction of father and son and without giving me an indication of where he would be taking him or who he would be staying with (his girlfriend - the other woman - had abused our older children in the early days of our separation and the relationship had ended as a result. However, he had moved to be near here and I was 99.9% sure he was back in a relationship with her at the time).

So I said no. Cue solicitor's letters for months on end. Each letter I replied with 'happy to reinstate contact with a proper process of re-introduction prior to taking the child on holiday' and with 'express knowledge of where the child will be staying when in his father's care'.

18 months later my ex reappeared in the area and with no questions asked, contact was re-instated. Slowly at first but with overnights within 2 months.

Given the solicitor's letters I received, I have no doubt that anyone who was in contact with my ex at the time would have believed me to be the devil incarnate who was keeping him from his children. The only person doing that was the ex himself but he didn't want/wasn't able to face it.

Thanks Wibble,

Certainly not the OW

And all of you concerned people who are worried I will be next need not panic, I already have children and don't plan on adding any more. I'm quite independent, have a super job, my own money and lovely children.

Given the solicitor's letters I received, I have no doubt that anyone who was in contact with my ex at the time would have believed me to be the devil incarnate who was keeping him from his children. The only person doing that was the ex himself but he didn't want/wasn't able to face it

Yep, I know that one in spades . I would have done exactly the same in your shoes needsahalo

He left her as she was emotionally and physically abusive

He walked away and left his baby daughter with her??