Disablism - At the risk of sounding horribly patronising, I'd like to apologise.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Firstly, I want to ask for forgiveness if I'm inadvertently insensitive here. I really, really don't mean any offence.

I know there have been a lot of threads on disablist behaviour and attitudes on here, particularly in the last few months (IMO).

The last time I posted on one, I upset people. I genuinely didn't mean to. I have a dn whom I love dearly who has, among other things, autism and LD.

I didn't mean to make it seem that, because I have peripheral experience, that I knew what I was talking about, though I do think, in hindsight, I came across that way.

I'll admit that sometimes I read threads that seem innocuous to me and posters will come on to say it's disablist and I've rolled my eyes and thought "here we go again." I fully admit to that, though I've never posted anything like that.

Well, I'm just here to say I'm sorry.

The more threads I read, the more I realise how bloody hard it is for people to see casual disablism all around them and have to fight just to not be insulted or discriminated against, or have their children suffer that same fate.

I saw something in a coffee shop this morning that literally had me in tears.

There's a special needs school near this coffee shop and the students often come in with their carers for a cuppa and a chat.

Today, one of the students was laughing and (forgive me if this is offensive) sort of shouting and squealing. She seemed to be thoroughly enjoying herself.

Some fucker complained loudly to the staff that he couldn't concentrate because of (and I'm not joking) "that lot" and pointed to the table where the students and carers sat.

I'm happy to report that the staff firmly told him if he didn't like it, he could leave. But my heart sank. And it got me thinking.

If I've been a part of that sort of isolation, even just on here, even just by my attitudes or misconceptions, then I'm truly sorry.

I felt sick to my stomach watching that horrible man and how he humiliated that girl and the people she was with.

I went over, and I hope I wasn't patronising, but I just said that he was an arsehole and that I hoped everyone was ok. I didn't want to sit and say nothing.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

PLEASE do not turn this into a bashing thread.

And please don't think I'm being goady.

But I'm genuinely upset at the thought of what people have to deal with and I just want to say, I will make every effort to be more sensitive. And I truly hope that people like that man disappear off the face of the planet.

to all you wonderful people who have to deal with this bullshit every day. I hope I never add to it.

That's awful just. we avoided the underground as we knew that would be pretty much impossible to access. Buses weren't too bad but I found myself doing a lot of walking pushing ds - which of course isn't an option for a lot of people.

I don't want any one sector of society picked out for that, it's all of us.

I do agree with this!

Yes, my2cents on MN you really find out what the average person in the street thinks of you as it's unfiltered and boy, is it shit.

Plus there's a lack of understanding about overt and covert disablism on the boards as well, particularly OPs which will leave out the fact that the child their child is trying to exclude from the party is the SN child and then drip feed that later.

A lot of things are left to stand that should not i the interest of "interesting debate" such as the mother who believed she had the right to know the EHCP of a SN child, because her PFB is in the same class

AND I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING FOR THIS CHILD

NO, you are being nosy and disablist fuck off

And what it has really highlighted for me is what some of the awful views of the parents about me must have been 20/30 years ago, when I became the first disabled child at my MS school, that I really hadn't given a second though to ever.

And, if those were their views, why their DARLINGS felt I was fair game for bullying.

I worked for most of my career with people who had acquired disabilties and in the main they told me that they found people polite and helpful; it was the practical problems that were involved with getting about that used to annoy them most and the absence of thought for someone who is disabled in the design of towns and buildings etc. There has, I think, been some gradual improvement in this over the years. But the sainthood bit is interesting - I worked with one particular teenage girl with a disability who said that people were in general kind, but looked at her horrified if she was "messing about" (in a minor way) a bit in town with her mates - it was as if a disabled person had to behave like an angel to fulfil the expectations of others.

Kitkats, don't make excuses for the man or pretend it doesn't exist as its just an extension of the ignorance.

I find Mn much worse than rl too but I think it's because I don't really notice that much anymore as people do just gawp and comment (presumably that's why the carers didn't bother so much)

It could have been my daughter you were talking about though Walter. She's very loud, laughs and jumps about alot and people are vile to her/about her, so we'll hear too. She doesn't have a care in the world!

How do you get on and off trains if in a wheelchair? I've never actually attempted it as it brings me out in a cold sweat. I find buses easier as the bus driver is there so 'll get out and the ramp out etc.

They set a ramp up.

Funnily enough, only last night with DS (4) we had a chat about SN due to an issue he had with a little classmate who has Downs in nursery. As we also have SN in our extended family I want him to be thoughtful, considerate of the limitations of others, and respectful. I don't think he realised his classmate was SN as his little cousins are quite severely and visibly SN of a different kind. Once he understood, he was a lot happier that his classmate wasn't being naughty towards him necessarily but needs extra help from teachers in learning how to play gently with DS and others.

My DF was disabled, so as a family we were no strangers to asshole comments out in public. Incredibly hurtful and awful sometimes.

So do you have to tell them in advance? Or how do they know you are there? (Sorry for stupid questions)

Bloopbleep I always remember walking through a car park and this Porsche pulls into a disabled parking space. A man went up to the car and started ranting about abusing parking spaces. The driver gets out the car and stood there on his prosthetic leg. Not good to judge.

I think years ago I would have been tutting at that badly behaved child in the supermarket. Never occurred to me that there might be SEN. Learnt more about it once DC started school

Until I become friends with someone with ME I was just as guilty as thinking just suck it up. Surely it's like having a bad night's sleep and you feel a bit tired?

Now my attitude is try not to judge as you have no idea what is going on.

My comments above from 15 odd years ago and I think we know more about disabilities now so we should be more understanding. But there are still twats about.

I use trains all the time. You make assistance bookings, different helplines depending on the train company.

You can read how bad some stations are here on the watercress line website: www.watercressline.co.uk/archive/Your-Visit/Disabled-Access.html

Access to platform two is limited to a ramp across the track and our station staff will be more than happy to accompany you across should it be required (opportunities may be limited)

owl on our local trains there is normally a guard who brings a ramp.

When we were in London there was no sign of anyone so I struggled to lift him on - a couple of times random people helped. But he is a 7 year old in a mc major so pretty easy to lift compared to most chairs.

Locally, I don't need to book, nationally I do.

More complex as some stations, old ones have no access. If they can't get you to the station you want, they send you to nearest or get you a cab.

24 hours notice on national travel.

Gaslighting what would have helped you understand previously?

There are plenty of times I respond to threads here & say my children (who have adhd/spd/asd/pda/social anxiety & selective mutism) would respond 'that' way but they are not being rude, they just communicate differently or panic or similar because of their disabilities and all I get is a tone if abuse about how send are no excuse for rudeness (they miss the point that it's not rude) or that oh I knew there would be someone saying oh but what about invisable disabilities blah blah blah.

I try to explain, so they can see another perspective but no hope. Often it's parents of children with disabilities who are the most intolerant and shoot me down sadly enough.

Lovely OP. Thank you 😊

The thing is changes you the parent/relative as well - makes you hard and cynical. I've had a massive hulking rugby type man come and get into my face about my daughter, who has autism, at Legoland of all places. I never make eye contact anymore when we are out and about, I have seen the disapproval and disgust too many times, don't look at them and they won't get a chance to express it to you. The problem with that though is it stops you connecting with everyone so you become even more isolated.

That's so sad, Nicki and so unfair that you even need to do it. to you and everyone who has to put up with this shite.

It is bloody awful and everywhere outright nastiness and there are the intolerant/ impatient comments from those that should/ profess to know better.

Having more than just intellectual empathy - a proper feeling in the heart empathy - is essential.

Just one example that hurt us: My husband was told off by a jobsworth volunteer at the main library who was literally doing patrol laps round the ground floor. My DH was 'caught' resting on one of the sofas with his eyes closed (with an open book on his lap & sat next to me) He was challenged as he might be a homeless person abusing the facilities. I was shocked and said my husband was unwell and simply having a little rest. My poor DH felt quite humilated. DH had literally been sat for 2 mins with his eyes shut after having struggled round a few aisles with his crutches then reading a few pages of his book. Never mind those that were chatting and drinking coffee.

After getting my wits back, I went to talk to the man again to explain how his accusation was upsetting and pointed out that people with disabilities (or anyone!) might quite reasonably need to rest whilst using the library and that people shouldn't feel in fear of being judged at the library. He replied by saying (loudly) if you are too unwell to keep your eyes open and be at work then you should stay at home. I was gobsmacked (and complained to the manager) and thought how the horrible officious, strutting little man would have fitted nicely into the SS.

DH had struggled out after recovering somewhat from operations on both his legs and with severe depression. The experience left him feeling worthless and persecuted, coming just a few days after some arsehole shouted cr*pple at him as he crossed the road with his crutches.

F*cking bastards - I can't help but wish terrible afflcitions upon them.

Hazmat your poor dh.

What the fuck is wrong with people?!

owllady did you actually read my post, or just the first line and then jump on me. I'm so not making excuses, and as a disabled person, the last thing I am is bloody ignorant.

blossomdeary yes, you understood what I was saying, why shouldn't a disabled teenager twat around in town with their mates like anyone else.

Waltermittythesequel no I didn't mean you were othering at all, it's just a perception of disabled people (not by you) that they somehow have different thoughts and feelings from everyone else. One example is the old "Downs children are so happy and loving" crap. Sometimes they are happy, sometimes they're not, just like everyone else.

This government is worse for being disablist.

Having more than just intellectual empathy - a proper feeling in the heart empathy - is essential.

So true Hazmat

Hazmat, did you complain to your local authority? That's really not on. Libraries are inclusive places (even to those who are homeless I'd have thought )

Thank you for the information 're the trains everyone. I'll give it a go :)

Oh, I know you were making a general point KitKat and a valid one!