Disablism - At the risk of sounding horribly patronising, I'd like to apologise.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Firstly, I want to ask for forgiveness if I'm inadvertently insensitive here. I really, really don't mean any offence.

I know there have been a lot of threads on disablist behaviour and attitudes on here, particularly in the last few months (IMO).

The last time I posted on one, I upset people. I genuinely didn't mean to. I have a dn whom I love dearly who has, among other things, autism and LD.

I didn't mean to make it seem that, because I have peripheral experience, that I knew what I was talking about, though I do think, in hindsight, I came across that way.

I'll admit that sometimes I read threads that seem innocuous to me and posters will come on to say it's disablist and I've rolled my eyes and thought "here we go again." I fully admit to that, though I've never posted anything like that.

Well, I'm just here to say I'm sorry.

The more threads I read, the more I realise how bloody hard it is for people to see casual disablism all around them and have to fight just to not be insulted or discriminated against, or have their children suffer that same fate.

I saw something in a coffee shop this morning that literally had me in tears.

There's a special needs school near this coffee shop and the students often come in with their carers for a cuppa and a chat.

Today, one of the students was laughing and (forgive me if this is offensive) sort of shouting and squealing. She seemed to be thoroughly enjoying herself.

Some fucker complained loudly to the staff that he couldn't concentrate because of (and I'm not joking) "that lot" and pointed to the table where the students and carers sat.

I'm happy to report that the staff firmly told him if he didn't like it, he could leave. But my heart sank. And it got me thinking.

If I've been a part of that sort of isolation, even just on here, even just by my attitudes or misconceptions, then I'm truly sorry.

I felt sick to my stomach watching that horrible man and how he humiliated that girl and the people she was with.

I went over, and I hope I wasn't patronising, but I just said that he was an arsehole and that I hoped everyone was ok. I didn't want to sit and say nothing.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

PLEASE do not turn this into a bashing thread.

And please don't think I'm being goady.

But I'm genuinely upset at the thought of what people have to deal with and I just want to say, I will make every effort to be more sensitive. And I truly hope that people like that man disappear off the face of the planet.

to all you wonderful people who have to deal with this bullshit every day. I hope I never add to it.

I saw the thread title and was fully prepared to offer you a biscuit.

But thank you.

It is EVERY DAY AND EVERY DAY AND EVERY DAY both spoken and unspoken.

Walter I repeat to myself orange is not my colour!

Every that's a good example of what it is, isn't it?

That you read a title like that and (I assume) have to prepare yourself for shit coming your way.

All I can do is reiterate how embarrassed I am to have ever added to that shite and say, without trying to be dramatic or OTT about it, that I will do my damnedest to never be part of the problem again.

Walter that is great.

Mummyme I don't want to hijack this thread but did you make any progress with legal stuff re Thorntons? Hope you don't mind me asking.

Walter I repeat to myself orange is not my colour!

I once worked at a school for visually impaired students when I did a work experience placement, which really opened my eyes to a lot of what happens when someone is disabled, that I hadn't really thought of before.

I primarily worked with the younger children who didn't really know much about judgement or people being nasty just yet, a lot of them were thankfully sheltered from it by parents and the fact that they were at a school where everyone was just like them.

Unfortunately, most of the students there have more than just visual impairment (the majority of them were very early preemies as babies and developed cerebral palsy and developed blindness as a result), and I often sat and ate my lunch with the older students.

I remember the one older boy and I talking, we were the same age (17 at the time) and he was telling me about a trip he took to do some shopping the previous night. To look at him, you couldn't really tell that he had a disability, and, like most of the older students, he refused to use his walking stick because he didn't like to draw attention to himself.

While he was on the city bus, he sat in the 'priority' seating, as he has a right to do so, with his disability. This is mainly so that he can easily communicate with the bus driver if he can't figure out where his stop is, or if he needs to hear the stops being announced. Because he did not have his cane with him, it appeared as though he had nothing wrong with him.

When an older "gentleman" who walked with a walking stick as well tried to ask him to move out of the seat so someone with a 'real disability' could sit down, he did so, and tried to remain as close as possible to the front, but it was rather challenging for him.

He ended up missing his stop because he was embarrassed and unsure of how to respond to this man so he just did as he was told to avoid a scene.

I genuinely felt so bad for him - he had been by himself that night on the bus, and he was trying to do something that made him independent, but, the way that this man had spoken to him made him feel so ashamed that he didn't even bother to defend himself.

In my own experience, I've always noticed it to be adults who are nastier towards people with disabilities than children.

I meant to add this but my post sent before I was finished

Walter - your post actually made me a bit emotional! Sensitivity is hard sometimes, and until you see it or experience it yourself, it can be hard to be sensitive towards people with disabilities. I'm thankful that I grew up with my nan and two cousins being disabled, but I know plenty of people now who are not. I think my time working in that school also helped me keep that sense of compassion as I got older - I changed my vocabulary and outlook even further when it came to talking about disabilities and people with special needs.

See obviously behaviour like the bloke in the coffee shop displayed is disablist to a degree, but let's face it, he's a twat. He would be pissed off it was a child making a noise, an older person walking slowly in front of him, the barista not making his coffee quite right.... Some people are just intolerant arseholes, and while I think it's more noticeable in this case, I'm not convinced it's because they were disabled, more that they were noisy and interrupting his precious concentration. With the advent of free wifi, more and more people expect to be able to use coffee shops as their office, and the only others who they think should be in there are other business people. I bet at some point he was yelling ostentatiously into his phone and disturbing others, but that's fine to him.

Maybe I'm just lucky, or live in a tolerant area, but I'm a disabled wheelchair user and my SIL has learning difficulties (this is her preferred description), and I've never come across the attitudes that people on here talk about. I've known my SIL since she was a kid and she's now 40 and she has never complained of anyone being rude to her. People sometimes roll their eyes if I'm in their way, but then I roll my eyes if they are in my way, so it goes both ways.

I think there can be a danger of conveying sainthood onto disabled persons, when actually they (we) are just like anyone else, with the same range of emotions.

*Every that's a good example of what it is, isn't it?

That you read a title like that and (I assume) have to prepare yourself for shit coming your way*

Well yes exactly

princesshaley in a way that illustrates what I'm saying. If I got on the bus and there was a perfectly able-bodied looking teenager in the priority seat, I too would ask him to move. You said yourself that he didn't look disabled, so the man with the stick was quite at liberty to ask him to move. That isn't an example of disablism, it's an example of rudeness.

Rudeness in the way the man asked him I mean.

To be honest I find MN disablist at its absolute worst in spite of what you witnessed today.

In the main people do not walk up to me on the street and say what they think of inviting the child with SN to a party, or whether it is ok that the child with ASD should be in MS school, or whether a child with DS should be terminated. No one voices these opinions to parents of children with SN in real life. On MN these are typical unvarnished topics for everyone to dissect even though there are a huge number of people with SN and their parents posters on here. It can really, really sting.

I think there can be a danger of conveying sainthood onto disabled persons, when actually they (we) are just like anyone else, with the same range of emotions

I hope I don't come across as doing this, because it's othering which I absolutely don't want to do.

But here's the thing; there were people "making noise" everywhere, on phones, in a large group (so naturally louder). I feel that this man picked on that girl because hers was the wrong kind of noise. Because of her disability. I really do think that's where he was coming from on this one.

And I think that because there was a group of mums with babies on the far side and the babies were of course noisy.

And in any case, I don't think it's assigning sainthood to say that the girl with SN should be made allowances for! Because perhaps she can't help it. And why should she?

*I know that you weren't necessarily talking about my own experience in making your point.

Princess your post breaks my heart.

The number of people who verbally abuse me (I'm disabled) for not moving out of the priority seats on the bus is horrendous. I'm not visibly disabled, but I'm happy to explain why I'm in the priority seats if people ask. I don't always get the chance, they just go straight for abuse. It's even worse since I had DD, I think people assume I'm in the seats because they are next to the pram spot, not because I actually need them. I feel like buying a big badge with the blue disabled logo on it and wearing it on my lapel everywhere I go. Wish I didn't have to.

PS not all people who wear sunglasses indoors are pretentious pricks - some of us have brain diseases that mean we can't tolerate the light.

No progress so far, saw the law people but they weren't all that hopeful. Spoke today about going ahead. I'm so tired of it all.

I've got til Dec to file the papers.

The law people were very helpful but very realistic on what I can actually achieve and how hard it may be to get there.

I'm another who finds mn (including the sen boards at times also sadly enough) disabilist, more so than rl. But then I'm not sure if that's because I'm somewhat oblivious to alot of it between my disabilities and my children's. And I'm a little blunt about speaking up for them.

The massive exception being first couple of school attempts.....

This may well out me as I was extremely vocal about it at the time, but I was left at a bus stop recently with my child in their wheelchair and with their carer, as the bus driver refused to let us on because there was a woman with a toddler in a buggy and shopping bags in the designated wheelchair space, so apparently had no room for my child to travel.

Carer and I had to take turns pushing my child home up steep hills.

The bus wasn't even half full.

No words really.

Like many other mothers of disabled children I get this and worse all the time. My 8 year old has been shouted at for just sitting in his wheelchair, minding his own business. My own family moan about ds5 not responding to them (he has autism), ds3 not listening to them (he has a hearing impairment and you need to speak clearly and get his attention first).

I think when you are an auntie or grandparent etc you get a small taste of what it's like but it's completely different to experience it day in day out.

OP thank you for your understanding

I have just returned from a trip to London and was amazed the trains we needed to use daily to get into London had no wheelchair designated spaces at all. Not even one! I ended up standing in the doorway with ds in his chair on each trip - in people's way at each stop. Must be a nightmare for anyone travelling alone in a wheelchair.

I do think that just being decent, 99% of the time, to everyone including loved ones and strangers, is something we can undervalue so much. I don't want any one sector of society picked out for that, it's all of us.

I don't mind if people stumble and use the 'wrong' terminology, I don't mind if people question thoughtfully, I don't mind if people challenge sometimes.

Must be a nightmare for anyone travelling alone in a wheelchaiR

What's worse is when stations have no real wheel chair access, the rail service entrance has to be used, staff have to help literally drag the wheelchair user across the train tracks to the platforms.