New £23k Benefit Cap.

[legotits]

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

Mango I'm totally on your side but in your example the working couple wouldn't see £15,600 of their benefits as it would be paid out in childcare.

It does annoy me when people fail to mention the top-ups they get whilst working though and then shame benefits claimants. Most people are just trying to do the best for their children. I know I am.

Me too Lagirafe
I posted earlier in the thread about how I essentially worked for free for a few years when the childcare bill was almost as much as my wage, it's a difficult time to get through when they're little.

Definitely childcare should be much more heavily subsidised for working parents (if not fully subsidised), that's the big sticking point for many.

lag so true. My kids dad is on quite a good wage and still entitled to some help.

I claim more benefits in work than I do out of work

Lag of course they "see the money" we pay for childcare cash no help with tax credits. I don't work but need nursery care for appointments and days when I am unwell.
The money is still real money.

Well said Kate67

Childcare is a huge problem. I'm currently moving from benefits to work and my childcare is going to be £180/week. My income support has stopped, I won't get paid until the end of the month (and not a full months wages), tax credits can take up to 4 weeks to deal with my change in circs but the nursery (as a private business) obviously want paying now.
I don't even earn the cost of the nursery fees.

I think there is a lot of luck to life, in the right place at the right time for that job, you didn't get meningitis etc.

However I do think we need to look closely at what do we expect by living on benefits. What things are necessary, what's a luxury? It's certainly within living memory that people lived without electric in the uk. Things have moved on, but what do we think now?

It's not about the amount of cash, but what it buys.

Most people don't begrudge paying tax so that we have the NHS, education, services etc. Lots do take exception to it being wasted paying for the lazy and irresponsible.

That's a bit harsh. Most unemployed benefits claimants didn't start off that way but a change in circumstances put them there. I don't begrudge paying taxes to those in need because it's for the greater good. Families who are not able to meet their basic needs are less likely to move in to work, the children of these families are less likely to finish school with good GCSE's and less likely to find work as adults but more likely to be convicted of a crime. I don't believe that any child should grow up in a household where their basic needs can't be met, it's not good for them and it's not good for society as a whole.

Do people not realise that benefits are really hard to get. You cannot just go and say I'm not in work and hold your hand out.
I'll post this link one last time

www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/overview

I also think benefits, apart from those for people with physical disabilities should be time limited.

So you would have my husband and people like him with a severe mental illness to go for those awful stressful assessments regularly?

God, it would be horrendous for him. His condition will never change enough for him to become not disabled. It's just not a physical disability, it is a mental one.

I think what people are trying to say is that they are fed up with the people who are as capable as they are of getting a job, but who prefer to laze around at home instead at the cost of the taxpayer. We all know someone, I'm sure, who has inherited quite a bit of money, but who has someone else 'look after' it so that they 'don't lose their benefits', or someone who owns a villa abroad but somehow still lives in a housing association/council property, or someone who claims to be a single parent but actually their partner also lives with them, but on paper appears not to because said partner has her/his post sent to their mum's address still

Bollox.

No I don't know any people that fall in to your category of being the ones we should target.

But then again I don't read the daily fucking mail.

The problem with these benefit cuts is that they're hitting very vulnerable people very very hard. All to catch the rare "sponger".

It's a lie. The government are doing it because they don't like welfare full stop.

They don't like the NHS either so it's no coincidence it's being run into the ground.

They don't like state education unless it's gramma, hence demoralising the teacher workforce.

I spot a trend here. The MOD, the arts - they're pretty safe. Mmmm funny that.

It seems form posts that there is people deserving poor? who dip into benefits, find it really hard and get very little. But also people who play the system undeserving poor? and use the system to get maximum benefit for minimum work.

How do you separate the two?

Anyone who believes in the undeserving poor should educate themselves. Have a read of the literature from the Victorian times.

It is a subjective moral distinction not a fact based one. Therefore it has no basis for policy making.

The Undeserving Poor don't exist or so they say.

We have a civilised society we don't punish anyone with poverty.

Not even sex offenders or rapists.

You can't seperate the two

Trying to misses the scams & penalises the deserving

But really the proportion of money wasted on the scroungers is nothing compared to that wasted on the rich- amazon etc all who don't pay tax, now that is a huge proportion of public funds we can and should target.

However I do think we need to look closely at what do we expect by living on benefits. What things are necessary, what's a luxury

An interesting point. Who defines luxury?! There was a poster recently-I forget who-talking about the benefits cap who was upset about the cap but said she had a £35 a month mobile phone contract.

Things like that make me think, as I've never had a contract over £20 I don't think and I earn decent money. I think £35 is loads to spend on a phone!! If things were tight or I was claiming benefits-I would see that as a luxury.

We punish sex offenders who get caught, not enough but they are punished. Unless of course they are rich & squirrel out of it with rich lawers

It is finally worth me getting a job, I've always been employed and I'll gain a profit for the first time in 25 years.
We have had lots of tc, I'm not ashamed to say so, but contrary to belief, we don't all sit around working out how we can get more.
We are too busy working, raising our dc, etc to muck about trying to play the system.
I won't keep my small profit as now it will go on school fees, so will be worse off.

Changing names
You miss the point again. My tax bill would be lower or I'd have better public services! Where do you think the money comes from?

my hubby earns less than £23000 and he has his own building business and we survive don't really see why someone on benefits should get more than a working man , and they get all the other extras free school meals, prescriptions, dental care.

'We all know someone, I'm sure, who has inherited quite a bit of money, but who has someone else 'look after' it so that they 'don't lose their benefits', or someone who owns a villa abroad but somehow still lives in a housing association/council property, or someone who claims to be a single parent but actually their partner also lives with them, but on paper appears not to because said partner has her/his post sent to their mum's address still*'

Why no, we don't. I sure don't. And the people I know who are on benefits without work? I wouldn't want their lives for anything, and mine's had its share of some real shit (DD1 died from cancer, age 9, DS has autism, etc etc).

I have a friend who was on ESA (she's now a pensioner). She lost her only child, her husband and her mother in 2 years and had COPD. But was moved onto JSA for 2 months until she qualified for pension. It cost the taxpayer to do this and she was paid more. And was ridiculous. A 63-year-old woman who's on a host of drugs and constantly out of breath and struggling with chest issues. Yeah, loads of people were queuing up to hire her!

If being on benefits is such a life of Riley, why not go and claim them then? There's nothing stopping anyone.

Anyone who claims only those with physical disabilities should be able to claim disability benefits (and AGAIN, DLA and PIP are not out of work benefits) is welcome to spend the week with my 8-year-old son and then come and tell me he isn't disabled. Bring your ProPlus and coffeemaker!

This policy will end up costing the taxpayer more, via councils footing the bill for homeless people. It won't save money!

asd, do you work too or is it just hubby that brings home the bacon?

asd

I just wonder if you have a very high mortgage, or rent.
My family have always managed on quite a bit below 23k but have had low outgoings.

Asd how many children do you have? Do you not claim child benefit? Tax credits?