New £23k Benefit Cap.

[legotits]

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

Jess
Your comment
"What about all the couples that could easily live on one wage but choose to put tiny babies in childcare from 7am until 6pm
... " due to greed!
That really offends me. The reason that my children are in full time nursery is because that's our only option. Maybe if the welfare bill was a little more controlled it wouldn't be our only option. I don't see why I should enable other people to be sahp when we can't be.

"An assessment centre in south london was caught out putting an 'out of order' sign on the lift."

What should they have done, laughed at people pushing the 'call' button and the lift not arriving?
No, they shouldn't have put a sign on a perfectly serviceable lift.

I have reported you for your constant disablist posts.

I can't be arsed to do the research for you, you have chosen to believe your nonsense despite evidence.

Babyjake it's an interesting point of view, try not to be such a bell end about it though.

Then you mean a child with severe multipul learning disabilities not a severe multiple learning disabled child which is highly offensive and disabilist.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with supporting sick and disabled people at all. I don't think anyone here has a problem with providing short-term help for able-bodied, healthy people who find themselves in trouble for whatever reason. I think what people are trying to say is that they are fed up with the people who are as capable as they are of getting a job, but who prefer to laze around at home instead at the cost of the taxpayer. We all know someone, I'm sure, who has inherited quite a bit of money, but who has someone else 'look after' it so that they 'don't lose their benefits', or someone who owns a villa abroad but somehow still lives in a housing association/council property, or someone who claims to be a single parent but actually their partner also lives with them, but on paper appears not to because said partner has her/his post sent to their mum's address still.

These are the people we're all sick of.

But it's not meant to be a race to the bottom! People are meant to have a reasonable standard of living on benefits, and a better standard of living working. Benefits are meant to be a safety net, so you are safe if bad things happen to you. The hardworking poor should be paid a decent amount of money for their labour, with if they can't afford to buy somewhere, access to reliable and decent council housing. But of course we have no industry now to employ people, no unions to ensure decent rates of pay, and no state provided housing - all hail the consumerist society.

Engineer even if the wellfare bill was 0 your tax bill would be no cheaper, people pay tax because they have to, not to fund others 'life style' and if there was no wellfare system as of tomorrow it would just be spent on your NHS bill or your children's education bill or the police that protect your family

Absolutely. It makes my blood boil.

Kate1967, it makes my blood boil too - I totally agree with you!
It's shocking that posters get away with typing up shit like that in the post you quoted!

You know, the one with the shoddy maths, that left out the CB & WTC that the 'hard working couple' were getting on top of their minimum wage.
The one where the post stated as fact the complete fallacy that all benefits claimants get 'handed £23k for doing fuck all'.
The one which had very little (if any) transparent truth in it - which relied heavily on oblique statements of (non)FACT! and stated those (non)FACTS! as TRUTH!

Yes - makes my blood boil too.

Ah but mango, on a joint wage like the one I quoted, that first couple won't qualify for working tax credit! But you are right, yes - if they have children, they might get child benefit.

Reading some of the 'horror' stories about how people have had their benefits reduced as a result of the cap being reduced. Does this mean that they were previously getting more than £23k a year in benefits and its now being cut to £23k?

Well said, Kate!

I agree with the cap and I also think benefits, apart from those for people with physical disabilities should be time limited.
I personally know 3 people who rent out their council flats while they live with their partners, and several who are fiddling the system. 2 people I know we're claiming DLA fraudulently and were caught.
I have worked hard, paid for everything my children have had and I object to paying for other people's children and their lifestyles.
I could never afford to be a sahp so why should I pay for others to do so.

Suppermummy, yes the cap reduces them so they were higher.

They can be even higher though, plenty work the magic sixteen hours to avoid the cap, some just term time only. That way there is no cap and they can net an income most people would love the earn simply by continuing to have children they can't afford to support. Dads are surplus as better to have them live elsewhere to ensure maximum gain.

In work benefits need to be capped as well pus hours increased so that people have to make a real stab at self supporting.

Most people don't begrudge paying tax so that we have the NHS, education, services etc. Lots do take exception to it being wasted paying for the lazy and irresponsible.

I'm not sick of anyone.

I grew up in an area where benefits are seen as a real choice, i knew many girls at school whose career plan was to get pregnant and get a council house.

Even if benefits are a choice, i don't disagree or think these people are scum, lazy, or feckless.

I just think 20k after tax is a reasonable income. And yes, i know thats the cap and not what the majority get. But i don't see that the ones who do get 20k shouldn't be capped.

London is a different issue regarding rent.

I think sick and disabled should be on a completely different system. It is neither a lifestyle choice, or a safety net in those cases.

Kate on that income families with children would receive wtc for childcare and if three dc or more ctc as well.

Sheldon they are dealing with that already though with a 2 child tax maximum yes?

Really though it's fuck all to do with this cap.

Unless you already knew that and were just being goady.

They aren't giving extra money or even taking away from those who get to much.

The 16 hour loop hole to avoid the cap should be raised over time. I don't know why we hear stories about employers needing immigration to do manual low skilled jobs when we have people apparently unable to get work. It doesn't make sense.

We should also scrap some of the green belt laws so more affordable homes can be built.

Tryingtosaveup - so those with severe learning disabilities are suddenly going to be able to work.

Trying why just people with physical disabilities? Do you think a child chooses to be born with severe autism? Do you think an adult with schizophrenia deserves no support? What about a solider with a truamatic brain injury?

I live in London my rent is 16k a year.

For a 3 bedroom house. That's the cheap end of 3beds in my area. Most are around £1800 a month. The LHA would pay about £1200.

Those claiming benefits don't have the housing choices those that don't do. The majority of landlords don't accept housing benefit. Those that do often know people are desperate so take the piss. They can put rents up and not look after the house because people don't have a choice.

Before moving in we had to pay around £5k in deposit first months rents fees. That's without moving costs. Where would someone on benefits get that amount to be able to move house? If they needed to move to a cheaper area or where the work is etc.

Also is it even possible to go to a new local authority and claim HB from them if you have no links to the area?

As for the idea of vouchers, would be able to pay for breakfast club? Or do cheap shopping in market stalls or pound a bowl? Shop for clothes on ebay. This would work out more expensive for claimants and be a further tax.

Me and my husband work but still get housing benefit. I know we are exempt from the cap but want to highlight the issues around housing. It took us 18 months to find a landlord that accepted housing benefit when we were moving.

Is not that easy for people to move.

We have unskilled immigration because of the 16hr economy.
Small buisiness owners find it very difficult to find an employee to take more hours than the magic threshold. That's why we have unskilled migration, it was by design, part of the low wage economy. Immigrants will put the hours in.

I'm for benefits: a safety net to help those in time of need. And I agree, disabilities should be a totally different benefit, but...

I don't know why those opposed to the caps are so resistant to training and volunteering and encouraging people to better themselves and become employable.

You're so negative; there's no jobs, training, volunteering...I'll have as many kids as I want.

It's always someone else's fault - the uneducated (ie those with a different view), the Tories, Murdoch,

I don't think I can stand this thread any more.
My DP and I ended up on benefits for a short period and got nothing like the figures quoted.
Despite the fact that we have a young child and my DP being on JSA our rent was not fully covered (shortfall of about £70 per month) so any excess had to be found from the JSA.
Our rent is not particularly high for the area and luckily he was back in work before this became an issue.
As a benefit claimant you are generally treated by the Job Centre as a piece of shit on their shoe and spoken to as if you are a five year old (despite the fact that my DP has worked all his adult life and never claimed a penny before!)
I know that there are people who take the piss but if they are having holidays abroad and driving fancy cars then they must have other sources of income!

I am sure that the ruling elites will be very glad to see how their divide and rule strategy is working with the British people. Whatever happened to empathy?

Have just popped on 'entitled to' on the gov.uk website.
Have done it a few times as I was gob smacked at the outcome.

The fictional hard-working couple, working FT on minimum wage @ 35 hours per week, living in a 3 bed house (outside London) with monthly rent of £750 & with 2 children (childcare costs = £300 per week) will get:

£13,104 wages per annum each

£26,208 total

£13,698.52 tax credits (includes WTC, CTC & Childcare Help)
£2,634.07 housing benefit
£1,788.80 child benefit

£18,121.39 total benefit entitlement
*
Total gross income: £44,329*

The fictional benefits claiming couple (I have made them both fecklessly unemployed, rather than 'deserving poor') in the same sized house/rent/kids etc will get:

£6,110.10 Tax Credits
£5,988.61 Jobseeker's Allowance
£1,148.17 Council Tax Support
£7,740 Housing Benefit
£1,788.80 Child Benefit
Total = £22,775
Total after cap = £21,145

Both families have to pay rent etc out of that.
My maths seems to think that a feckless non working benefits couple will bring in c£20k less per year than the hard working couple.

My maths seems to think that in fact, work does pay financially more than not working.
(And of course there are all the other social & mental benefits you get from working, too).

It would also appear that quite a few 'hard working' people who are 'outraged' at 'benefits scroungers' are taking home almost the same amount as the benefit cap itself in their own 'in work benefits'

'Also is it even possible to go to a new local authority and claim HB from them if you have no links to the area? ' no you have to have a proven qualifiable link to the area. (Btw that sometimes for some councils includes getting a job in the area ie they are trying to protect jobs for the people already living in that area). Children leaving care, children and ex wives of military also often don't qualify if applying in the area the armed forces member is currently stationed.