New £23k Benefit Cap.

[legotits]

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

What are parents meant to do with the children already here? Plenty of people have a family and then fall on very hard times.

Elinor I was just speaking from my experience - when I was talking about elderly people I was talking age 70+.

Degustibusnonestdisputandem People who can't afford kids shouldn't be having them. If you wanted a fancy car but didn't have the money you wouldn't be able to just go and have it - because you wouldn't be able to afford it.

Mango I assume that is after tax, deductions pension contributions.

So do I, which is why it's disingenuous to imply that they 'don't bring in as much as benefits would pay'.

As I said before, I fall under the cap and I pay tax on what I get.
Benefits are taxable too.

And if we're including pension contributions then that too is finessing out the finer details of what their income actually is.

My friend is 73, never had paid work. Of course majority of people of that generation did work - same as they do today.

When the recession hit, I lost my job The only new job I could get was on £15k, having previously been on £25k. So y'know what, I had to move from where I was living & down size to accommodate the drop in earnings.

Not a giant leap to try and see what I am getting at.

Elinor That's interesting to know. I only brought up the elderly thing because of the ridiculous comparison someone made of telling people not to have children if they can't afford it to culling all elderly people

People who can't afford kids shouldn't be having them.

Yeah! Fuckers!

But then, maybe they could afford them when they had them....??

Is it really such a great leap to imagine how your life can be smashed down around you in a second?
Everything you thought you had, gone. In a second.

I could well afford my kids when I had them.
Afforded them no bother at all until they were 10 & 13.
Then my entire life imploded and I could no longer afford them without state help.

Believeitornot I think you need to ^educate yourself*, the cap outside London is £20k

I know plenty of women who never worked after marriage and children.
Not uncommon for women my mils/mothers age tbh
My own mil worked 8 hours a week for 25 years (it was more a social thing!)
My mum worked ft and pt because she had to - we were working poor
Both Mum and dad worked from 15
Mum had to retire through ill health at 60
My dad was still working ft when he died at 67
They only ever got child benefit
Nothing else
And there were times we went hungry
Were cold
No holidays, no treats, no new clothes.
Difference being in the 70s most households like ours had 2 adults both working, no cars, no holidays, no new clothes etc
That was the norm for people I knew - my mum was paid £2.25 an hour working in a nursing home til the advent of the nmw.
It wasn't much fun tbh

Sad that 40 years later families are in the same boat
There are plenty of feckless and crappy parents - but bottom line is it's the kids that will suffer.
so for that reason the cap is poorly thought out and devisive
I work in a school and yes, some kids do get fsm- what about the 14 weeks a year they are not at school??
You can tell the fsm kids st my school - they come back after the summer thinner

MangoMoon I'm talking about people who are in hard times and on benefits, know they can't afford to have a kid but then have them anyway! Of course provisions should be made for those who already have children (That they could afford when they had them - not relying on benefits) and have then fallen on hard times. Which is why I brought up the idea of part payments of benefits as food vouchers (obviously some cash for uniforms, rent etc.).

thankyou MangoMoon thought I'd entered the twilight zone there for a bit! We are quite comfortable and can certainly afford the two we have...however that doesn't mean I don't know how quickly life can change for anyone! Have a bit of empathy, FFS.

Comforting

Oh I'm sorry i said £19k.

ThatGingerOne so are you saying that poor people should never have sex, because "surprises" can and do happen, despite the use of contraception...

Also not really sure I like where this is headed...let's demonise the poor shall we? Decide which ones are undeserving?

Yep I was married for a quite a while before planning my child not knowing my exh was going to become violent so I had to get out fast with dd. It was a quandary, stay and be battered or leave and take my chances

I would have loved 3 or 4 children, but stuck with 2 as I knew we could survive/have a better standard of living if anything happened. Its called being sensible and planning accordingly.

The thing is it's never going to be acceptable to most people in work and actually earning money. Fine put the benefit cap at 23k. If the minimum wage/income is set at £24k say for a 35 hour week. This could include 'benefits'It just does not add up that people slugging their guts out all week come home with less than some people who don't work.

I know people in work who can't afford glasses, prescriptions and dentists. Those out of work get a lot of help for these things. They get help with education and courses which many people in low paid jobs would be desperate to do so they could improve their children's lives.

Apologies if I'm repeating points that have already been made, I haven't RTFT because I got too annoyed.

For all the single, childless people saying they survive on £18k or whatever so £20k is fine, the cap is actually £13,400 for single people without children (or with children not living with them).

Money left over after paying mortgage and paying rent can't be compared, because if you're paying a mortgage you still have some of that money, just now its in your property.

I am perhaps in danger of stating the obvious, but it is a cap... That means it's the upper limit. It does not mean that every person on benefits receives that much.

As to the PP who said if you can't afford children you should get sterilised...I hope I never have to live in a society where such an utterly disgraceful attitude is seen as acceptable.

I would have loved 3 or 4 children, but stuck with 2 as I knew we could survive/have a better standard of living if anything happened. Its called being sensible and planning accordingly

What about if your second pregnancy was twins?

Or you were working when you had 4 children then you got severely ill, your husband left or died and you had no family support?

What then.

Are eugenics acceptable ?

I would have loved 3 or 4 children, but stuck with 2 as I knew we could survive/have a better standard of living if anything happened. Its called being sensible and planning accordingly

Amen to this. Unless you are very well off (with tons of savings to fall back on), you are taking a hell of a chance having a large family.

Are eugenics acceptable?

No. Of course not.

Nobodys immune from being left with children. None of us know what's around the corner

Which is why I brought up the idea of part payments of benefits as food vouchers (obviously some cash for uniforms, rent etc.).

I would find that outrageously insulting.

I am a clever, educated, formerly very well paid, independent woman with self esteem & pride.
I paid a shitload of tax over the 22 years of my working life (no benefits other than CB, ever).

That you think I should get vouchers to dictate what/where/how my benefit money is spent (to save me from 'bad choices' maybe?) is offensive.

.....and if I find it offensive & infantilising then why the hell should anyone have to put up with that?
For the crime of life tripping you up / chance fucking you over.

There is no deserving / undeserving poor - they are all the same.
Just poor people who have fallen on hard times or are struggling for whatever reason.

PortiaCastis clearly some people on this thread seem to think so! (re eugenics)