To feel very uncomfortable about this Guardian article?

[KingscoteStaff]

Front page of the 'Family' section. A grandfather talking about his 21 yo granddaughter who has just committed suicide.

It just doesn't feel real. Could it be some sort of exercise in writing the most unsympathetic narrator ever?

*inconvenienced

fancy

I think I agree, in his case

My issue with Stoic is her blanket statements about bereaved people

apologies to be stereotypical but the article to is just a pure reflection of his male ignorance and ego expressed in terrible cliched prose. NotYoda I don'tt want to speculate the range of emotions relatives of people who commit suicide might experience but yes I can imagine feeling anger towards the victim, of course. Again, the grandfather doesn't actually sound so angry more judgmental and disappointed that Emma didn't toe the line.

I think it's normal for people who are bereaved to be angry at the person who has died no matter what they died from - not rational, but normal - but for some reason people who are bereaved through suicide are told that, yes, they should be angry, that somehow people suffering from mental illness are at fault for being unwell. Which is, frankly, horseshit.
Honestly, I believe that this attitude not only makes it harder for mentally unwell people to get help, it makes it harder for their loved ones to come to terms with the illness whether it ends in suicide or not.

In actual fact if the article conveyed anger he would probably come across as more humane and 'likeable rather than grandiose and empty.

yes

One of the most memorably terrible experiences of my own life was the day when it was discovered that someone in my shared house had committed suicide. I remember the face of the person who went into X's room and found their body, as she broke the news. I remember the way all of us were stunned and unable to speak. I remember the police coming, I remember going through X's clothes. There was an inquest too. One person in the house suffered a breakdown of their own shortly afterwards

And all this was even before X's family arrived from the other side of the world

There was a violence, a sense of something unnatural happening - that is not something I have felt when relatives died of old age, or when friends died at a relatively young age of incurable physical disease.

And I wanted very much to say to X, 'See what you've done. See what you've done to us. Was it worth it? Couldn't you have hung on to see whether life got better?'

While also knowing that X suffered from severe depression, finding out that it was her third attempt, and yes she did want to die.

People who are bereaved by suicide are marked and changed by that experience. They too, need places in which they can share their experiences. Even if there are others who very very strongly do no wish to hear what they have to say.

but for some reason people who are bereaved through suicide are told that, yes, they should be angry, that somehow people suffering from mental illness are at fault for being unwell. Which is, frankly, Horseshit.

Exactly.

Someone else taking their own life is not about you. It really isn't. Why would you be angry at someone who is in such agony, pain and despair that the only way out they can see is to end it all? How could you possibly think that is ok and right? A visceral reaction of anger is one thing, but to maintain it and justify it to yourself and to other people? That is unacceptable.

I wonder if he wanted to just convey those awful feelings that make him seem like a monster without apology, explanation, justification.

Those feelings we can usually only express when surrounded by the softening effects of love and regret for what was lost and for her suffering.

In my mind, stripped of all of those, do I really sound like the monster I think I am when I feel angry, that it was her fault, that she could and should have put a brave face on, tried harder, taken the help that was offered, shared her fears and dark thoughts with those who were supposed to be qualified to help rather than leaving th for us to deal with when she could not? What does it make me when I am angry at a person who was sick, suffering, helpless? What does it matter that I am an adult? I still hurt, deal with the fall out, have to carry on. Why was it OK for her to blame everyone else and all of her circstances but we are not allowed to blame her?

(Mmmm perhaps I need to write these down and reflect!)

I am grateful for this piece and for the reflection it has allowed me.

I read it and was similarly surprised. He seemed angry and blaming. In fact, I was waiting to see how it all kicked off in the comments section then was mildly disappointed not to find a comments section. So thanks for providing one I'm aware that eating disorders can impact the wider family hugely and also how divisive they can become. But yes, it smacked of the fermented thoughts of an older, not necessarily wiser, powerless, yet articulate man.

Why was it OK for her to blame everyone else and all of her circstances but we are not allowed to blame her?

Yes, that's how I feel. Because it's not as if the world is conveniently divided into to the super-strong who cope with everything effortlessly and are endlessly resilient, and those who aren't strong who may blame us for everything that frustrates and pains them.

It's just a lot more complicated than that.

Kobler -Ross - and grief cycle mention anger as a main stage of grief. See attached

Tallulah, this 'stages' theory of grief was not supported by evidence, and has been debunked now.

Also, it was originally suggested for people facing their own death.

My mother died of a form of cancer that has a relatively high survival rate if it's picked up soon enough. She was frightened and didn't seek medical advice in time. I felt anger towards her and towards myself, alongside immense sorrow and a whole range of other emotions.

Was I devoid of empathy?

Ninja I disagree that people are told they should feel anger when someone commits suicide - rather, they're told that it's understandable to feel anger. Unless Stoic is dishing out the regurgitated cod psychoanalytical bollocks judgment that is.

Something about the article reminded me of 'American pastoral' (possibly the authors intention!) I recommend the book for those interested in say, fathers - daughters - (the new film is meant to be crap though)

My granddaughter killed herself because the rent was due

This is the part I have issue with. Because she didn't kill herself because the rent was due, and because she spent it. The rest of the article is a character assassination designed to make us think she was a selfish person who failed to keep people happy.

Fucking bullshit.

Anger is a huge part of some people's grief

It is a feeling that people often find very difficult to admit to accept and will often push the feeling aside or directed it elsewhere

So no you are not devoid of empathy

I think that what a lot of people don't understand about suicide is that usually the person doesn't want to die and they don't think life isn't worth living - they are merely trying to escape the chaos in their own head.

No matter where you go, you cannot escape yourself. If you're tormented by your thoughts and feelings day in, day out then that is exhausting.

His story isn't about who is right or wrong it's how he feels and how he experienced his relationship with his granddaughter

There is no right or wrong in how people feel as that can not be controlled

should we only have printed people's experiences that don't make us feel uncomfortable, that show compassion and empathy, that make us feel better after reading about their experience so we can empathise

The point is that he identified her. As someone upthread said, her family and friends will read it. There is a picture of her as a child.

For him to suggest there was always something wrong with her because she ate a dirty sweet is also a tad ridiculous.

I am friends with a couple I've known for about 10 years- not close friends but more than acquaintances. They had a baby 5 years ago and pregnancy seemed to completely change the woman. She had no history of mental health problems but from very early in the pregnancy, she became very depressed and constantly anxious and was admitted to a Mother and baby unit for 3 months after the baby was born and she didn't really get back to her old self until the baby was nearly 2. They both agreed that they would not have any more children.
Then, when the child was 4, she said that she wanted another child as she was nearly 40 and this was her last chance. She said that her psychiatrist had told her that it was safe to take antidepressants in pregnancy, that she would be closely monitored and that it would be completely different this time. So he agreed.
The first few months of the pregnancy, she was quite anxious but then things seemed to settle down.
And then, when she was 29 weeks pregnant, he collected his daughter from school and came home to find her hanging from the bannister. He only began to even begin to try to move on by being honest about how angry he feels towards her and I don't know how anyone could blame him for that.
I do have compassion for people who take their lives and I get that someone must be in torment to do that but the reality is that suicide leaves a trail of utter devastation and I think that those left behind are allowed to feel angry if it helps them to find some peace.

Arguably there are advantages in regarding the person who took their own life as the main agent in their own death.

My friend who lost a sibling by suicide was put - to put this mildly - in a difficult position.

She knew that her sibling's partner was not liked by her sibling's friends, and as a result the couple had become more isolated in the year's before they took their own life. She herself hadn't warmed greatly to the partner herself. The couple had quarrelled at times. Could the partner be in some way to blame for the suicide of the person she loved and married?

If my friend blames the partner, that will lead a bereaved spouse to become more isolated and also mean that the child of the couple will grow up without seeing my friend who is her aunt.

My friend's mother had also said various, difficult and faintly racist things to the partner - more out of a kind of unthinking, limited tactlessness than out of intended hostility - and this too led to the couple isolating themselves.

So is my friend's mother to blame? Do her limitations - the fact she failed in cultural understanding - mean that she is responsible for her child having taken their own life?

These things are enormously complicated, when one starts trying to do justice to both the living and the dead.

lottie

But he didn't suggest anything was wrong with her for eating a dirty sweet?

Isn't he trying to make sense of her death seems ridiculous to us as we are not dealing with his feelings

Identifying her maybe that isn't an issue for the family that quite hard when you are taking about personal relationships in the media

hoolies, that is so awful.

This article left me feeling like the grandfather is utterly bewildered. Angry in places, but lost with his sense of futility.

I didn't take the reference to the sweet as a sign there was always something wrong, but a child who weighed up the options and expressed a wilful defiance where a better option was available.

He probably cannot understand why she did not choose what he perceived to be the better option - life.