To feel very uncomfortable about this Guardian article?

[KingscoteStaff]

Front page of the 'Family' section. A grandfather talking about his 21 yo granddaughter who has just committed suicide.

It just doesn't feel real. Could it be some sort of exercise in writing the most unsympathetic narrator ever?

[Deadsouls]

I'm not sure what to make of this. At the start of the article I was thinking, 'this guy seems angry'. But then I understood a little of what he was trying to get across. Although, I find the tone of the article oddly detached from feeling. Perhaps Emma did have a will to self-destruction in her eating disorder she was manipulative and difficult. I think I need to read it again.

[lottieandmia]

I usually regard myself as articulate but I found it very awkward to read so I'm glad I wasn't the only one!

[StrangeLookingParasite]

The thing I find the most uncomfortable is how overwhelmingly pleased with himself he is. The topic is just a vehicle for him to congratulate himself on how well (in his mind) he uses language. Actually it's horrible; obfuscating, dense and readable only with difficulty (and then it doesn't justify the effort).

He is just sooo impressed with himself.

[srslylikeomg]

Glad I found this thread that article sat really badly with me. His perception of her is clearly valid... I wonder what hers would have been on him? He clearly thinks she ought to have behaved better, been better. He has refracted everything through the prism of his own experience and limited knowledge of mental illness. Also, he's a right cunt.

[lottieandmia]

By the way, I think that even people who should know better are ignorant of what the reality of mental illness actually is.

I remember sitting opposite a psychiatrist who said to me 'you need to stop slicing yourself and starving yourself'. I used to have a huge problem with self harm (no longer) and brushes with eating disorders.

[lottieandmia]

The sense I get is that her parents were well off enough to help her have access to the best treatment possible. So even with that she sadly still didn't survive. It seems to be that she was loved because her family have set up a foundation to help other sufferers who can't afford that kind of help. Anorexia is a much misunderstood condition. But it's comforting to know there is a suggestion that her family did understand the condition.

[hackmum]

I was troubled by the article too.

I fully agree that people with mental health difficulties can be a complete pain and make life very hard for those around them. And I think it's not easy to separate the person's personality from the disorder - perhaps not even possible. So from that perspective, I have some sympathy with his feelings.

But I just don't see why he had to write about those feelings in a national newspaper, and certainly not using her real name. And because of the peculiarly florid language he uses, it's sometimes difficult to work out what he's trying to say. The incident with the sweet is a case in point - to me, it looks like the behaviour of a normal, rather defiant and spirited little girl, but he seems to think it reveals something about her personality. What that might be, I couldn't tell.

So apart from anything else, it could have benefited from a good edit.

I imagine it must have been very hurtful for her family and friends to read. I wonder if there'll be letters about it in this Saturday's Guardian.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

but even if he did understand the illness and his granddaughter that would not mean he would necessarily feel differently and having a mh diagnoses does not mean that all your emotions and actions are driven by this

logic and knowledge and emotional feelings do not go hand in hand if they did we would suffer far less heartache, far less confusion, far less guilt and anger

people who are arrogant, selfish and even abusive (and I cant see how anyone from this short piece of rambled writing can come to this conclusion as if they know) also can suffer from grief, emotional pain, and confusion

[GloriaGaynor]

Maybe he finally understands Emma and sees life as a complete waste of time

If there is one thing clear from the article he did not understand Emma, and he did not understand anorexia.

[anotherdayanothersquabble]

Interesting that people are assuming that the article represents everything the writer felt about his grand daughter rather than a snap shot of some of the feelings / musings about her death and that the quote on her memorial fund represents everything the rest of the family feels about her.

The memorial fund was never going to say 'Emma was a right pain in the ass, for years she sucked the joy out of everyone and everything around her. She threw every bit of love we gave her back in our faces and manipulated every professional who tried to help her. For all that, we would like to thing her life was not in vain and that no other family should suffer as we did. Give generously so that one day someone might find a way where we could not.'

And her grand father did say that maybe he could and should have said things differently, done things differently and maybe he has spent the 10 years before she died and the three years since ridden with guilt for not having done enough. Maybe he has reached the stage of thinking that nothing would have worked because she was wired the way she was and that it was quite simply just how it was always going to end.

But he can never truly say what he feels because to say such things is monstrous and through the filters of what we know to be right, what is socially acceptable and the default human position of hope, we don't voice fatalistic thoughts every day. Maybe he finally understands Emma and sees life as a complete waste of time but if he were to insist on this, he would be ushered into therapy, encouraged to see the joy in life, to resolve his thoughts about Emma and put on antidepressants.

[NathalieM]

I found this a very uncomfortable read!

[lottieandmia]

'Why did the Grandad not link to Emma's memorial page?'

Quite - there is far more to this that we don't know. Personally if I were her mother I would be pleased that my daughter's name was linked to her memorial site on a discussion about an article that has nothing nice to say about her.

[mimishimmi]

The writing was stilted, he certainly sounded angry with his grand daughter but I don't think he was being horrible. I think he was struggling to understand her existential angst and I understand that. At the same time, I don't quite understand what her religious identity has to do with it - mental health problems can affect anyone and most communities have a stigma attached to it. It's very sad and she was so young - I went through a very difficult phase at the same age.

[fancyknittedstuff]

interestingly the memorial page bring sup this:

"The portion of Emma Rose Winter Paul memorial that you are trying to access requires an extension in order to become active again. Would you like to contribute to the memorial’s extension?"

Could the article have been a way of string controversy and publicity?

[fancyknittedstuff]

"Cunty Grandad who writes badly." that's one way of putting it.

Why did the Grandad not link to Emma's memorial page? I believe it's about control and he comes across as a controlling old man. I agree with a pp who said the article the Grandad's public tantrum. The gist of the text, to me, is about male, patriarchal control and the absence of love and empathy.

[ForgotStuff]

LottieandMia. Umm, don't twist my comment into something negative when it was the opposite. Of course everyone is flawed I wasn't saying it as a criticism at all.

The reason that I suggested not having her name on here was so that she isn't linked anymore than she already is to the article. I was suggesting it to protect her memory. At the minute if you google her name then the fund and a list of her obituaries comes up. If we keep mentioning her full name then when people google her name might this thread come up? (I don't_ know if it would??). Surely that would be a bad thing as it links to the grandfathers article which, thankfully, doesn't include her full name as is unlikely to be 'found' by anyone googling her name.

[NotYoda]

He writes like a pompous ass because I suspect he is one.

No-one on this thread who has said they shared some of the emotions he was expressing, sounds remotely like him. Because they are not pompous asses

Moreover, he published those thoughts

[lottieandmia]

So it's ok for him to publicly name her in an article in which he launches a scathing attack on her character but it would be best not to show that her family clearly don't have the same view as him. Ok

Btw everyone is flawed.

[ForgotStuff]

I had a wry smile at the description of her being a rebel to the core . I wonder if that's a not very subtle way of them acknowledging that she was flawed.

I wonder if It would be better not to link to her name on this thread. I know it's easy to find from information in the thread but now that her name is written in a post might it come up if someone were to search her name. Iyswim

[slenderisthenight]

an attempt

[slenderisthenight]

Now that it's clear how Emma's immediate family want her to be remembered and are going to such lengths to honour her memory positively, the writer's behaviour is clearly at odds with the family and probably is and attempt to hurt them as well as Emma.

The Guardian was wrong to publish it without clarifying it was fine with her family. And possibly wrong to publish it at all - sometimes the Guardian is great but now and again it is willing to publish a 'rant' that doesn't seem appropriate material for a newspaper. This is one such time.

[Amandahugandkisses]

Omg. There is something v askew and sinister in the family dynamics here.
The description of her in the fund page is so positive and really seems to honor her memory with respect.
I suspect he has no contact with his daughter and met Emma at brief intervals in her short life. His motivations for writing such a damning article come off as quite sinister actually.
There is much more to this story.

[toomanypetals]

ipost was writing about her MIL. I just don't think you can compare that to writing about your grandchild - and very much writing about incidences in childhood.

He's talking about a child.

[lottieandmia]

toomanypetals - yes absolutely. And the OP says something feels wrong about it in the opening post.

I'm relieved to learn that not all of her family viewed her the way that he did. Thank goodness.

[SingaSong12]

I haven't read the full thread, managed about half of the article. Ipost I found what you said (read to about p10 on my browser) very moving. It has changed my attitude to the authors feelings. I think more should be heard of voices like yours. I just find his style hard to deal with and get the impression of someone who always found his granddaughter hard work even at a vey young age. However I haven't been there.