to think that not wearing a poppy counting as a uniform disciplinary issue is wrong?

[Bogeyface]

DD's school have said this, and yes I have checked with the school.

Dont get me wrong, no issue personally with poppies. However I dont think that the school can insist on pupils wearing a poppy to the point that they can be put into isolation for not wearing one, can they?

A poppy is an act of remembrance and if a person has no reason to wear one, or prefers not to, then how is that any of the schools business? I dont wear one, but I buy 2 crosses every year for my grandfathers graves who both fought and suffered horribly during WWII. I remember, I just dont wear a poppy.

DD has chosen to wear one, but says that most of her peers wear them because they have to, not because they care. There have been no assemblies or lessons about why poppies are worn and what the represent so she thinks that in the main this rule is pointless.

This is sim

The competitive poppy-wearing just turns my stomach, as does the co-opting of the symbol by certain unsavoury groups. I would absolutely object to the school insisting that children wear poppies as part of their school uniform.

Er, no one fought for freedim in World War 1.

Thank you for saying this, user1471493472. When people mindlessly repeat the cliche of "dying for our freedom" when discussing the First World War, I want to bang my head against the desk. Those poor men died in a brutal and meaningless war, they weren't protecting anyone's freedom.

But maybe they thought they were? Judging by how easily today's population are easily swayed by the press, is it not safe to assume those in 1914 thought they were fighting for freedom?

No, they signed up for Empire, for "King and Country", for adventure and the "fun of it", to see new places.

That's the standard list of reasons textbooks list anyway.

I can imagine most people enlisted in WW1 because of the immense pressure to do so, if you didn't you were a coward. And for the average young working class man, it was the only hope they had of any sort of adventure.

As others have said, WW1 wasn't about fighting for freedom. Millions died for nothing because a few aristocratic cousins were basically having a "who has the biggest penis" competition. And British imperialism has caused countless atrocities around the world throughout history.

I don't wear a poppy. Partly because of poppy facism, and partly because there are other charities that mean more to me that I choose to support. Supporting a charity is a personal choice. I wore a Miscarriage Association pin for baby loss awareness week but I don't expect everyone else to wear one.

You seem very definite about this user. But remember you're not the only person to have studied history.

I wear one because if things had gone the other way, I would never have existed. The poppy to me is remembrance of those who fought for freedoms.

Which includes the freedom not to wear a poppy.

BTW - there has been more than one war, it is not all about 1914-18.

My Grandad was born in 1900. Didn't get anywhere near WW1 because he was a miner and they were exempt from conscription. He was also an out an out leftie and firmly of the belief that WW1 was a "bosses war" and anyone who let themselves get dragged into it was a complete mug, poor bastard. I suppose I was brought up to feel the same.

DH's Grandad lied about his age and signed up with his cousin, for the adventure, when they were both 16. His cousin was killed. In DD's family, they follow the "glorious sacrifice" narrative in their family history.

In other respects our families are pretty similar; respectable working class etc. When I first heard DH's lot's take on WW1, back in the 90s, I was genuinely amazed. But these days, most people buy into that view. Over the years, his family's view has become the more accepted by society.

I agree that it's just bollocks to say that the British only fought wars in the interests of justice. Most of them were started by invasions of an enormous number of other counties all across the planet.

Even so, WW1 wasn't the fault of the British. The German state in 1914 wasn't as unpleasant as in 1939 but it was pretty bad. Germany had invaded France 30 years earlier (so its 1914 effort was round 2) and its colonial record was poor. I don't intend any praise to the British by saying the good guys won on 1918, but comparatively speaking it's true.

...and as it was a defensive war, Allied WW1 soldiers absolutely were fighting for British freedom.

But as they were basically bullied into enlisting or were conscripted I sometimes think it would be better to wear a white feather as a way of giving the bullies the finger.

I never buy them because I avoid plastic tat. I donate, though. I just don't take the fake flower.

I would not be happy about that at all, I'd speak up against it. Although I've worn poppies in the past I wouldn't any more (except maybe white poppies) as I've come to learn more about what is meant by them. My family members didn't die fighting for Britain, they died fighting each other (1918 - civil war) and in WWII they died fighting against the Allies (they weren't Nazis though, they fought for their own freedom) so red poppies definitely don't represent them. I think the moment's silence is a much better way of remembering our dead.

Yes Sukey, very definite - that's the beauty of not being an empiricist. Others seem to be agreeing anyway. And specialsubject the poppies are all about Ww1 because they grew on the wasteland left after the fighting.

I think if they're compulsory, they become meaningless.

I also think that if a school is trying to make it compulsory (which I don't agree with anyway, ) then the very least they should be doing is explaining what it's all about and why they think it's so important that they are making it compulsory and a disciplinary matter.

It drives me bloody mad and I wear a poppy. If you force people to wear one it makes the whole act absolutely meaningless because the assumption is that people are wearing them because they're forced to, and not out of remberance, which defeats the whole bloody point.

I have family who are Irish too. They choose not to wear one, mainly because many WWI soldiers became Black and Tans who committed terrible atrocities in Ireland. So they have good reason not to. The bullying of Mary and Jefward for not wearing poppies on the X Factor was appalling. And that sort of thing does make it totally meaningless, forcing people who don't want to remember defeats the whole point.

alpha

I agree

How fitting that people joined up because they felt forced to, and would be punished if not, and now children are manipulated into wearing poppies...

Unless it is a military school yanbu

State school ?
Have they got nothing better to do with their time?
Like moat people I think remembrance is important . We donate every year due to the terrible fact that there is a whole new generation of injured veterans that need support. But wearing a poppy should be a choice. Surely all those soldiers fought against oppression?

It is important to remember that poppies were first used for remembrance in the early 1920s by relatives of those who died pointlessly (and often having been mislead) in WW1 - and with hindsight we can recognise exactly how pointlessly, given what happened over the next 30 years. They were intended to be apolitical from what I have read, and almost an act of protest. Soldiers, sailors and airmen (all men back then) embraced them over the years as they were uniquely positioned to be able to see the waste of lives. Reasons for joining the forces in more recent years varies significantly and sometimes it is just the least bad option for trying to build a life in difficult circumstances, I don't think we should judge those who do. Anyway, regardless of that, wearing a poppy has been adopted by the authorities rigorously in more recent years and I feel this detracts from the original intent and adds a layer of hypocrisy to the whole enterprise- wearing a poppy in November cannot 'make up for' following foreign policies which facilitate wars. However I do support the work the RBL does, but also the work of charities that work with all victims of war.

Do you think that soldiers join up in the name of freedom? (WWII aside)

I doubt even then it was 'in the name of freedom ' Britain and France went to war in 1939 as they were obliged to do so by treaty, not because of any noble cause like protecting democracy or preventing the holocaust.

there are other charities that mean more to me that I choose to support

This. The poppy is a fundraising device for the British Legion. Thats all it is. If you support what they do and want to give them money, that's fine, but you don't get to tell other people which charities to support.

Making a particular charity mandatory because it's associated with 'rememberance' is frankly a bit bizarre. As are the number of people who apparently give money to a charity without actually knowing what their money is being spent on.

This picture may illustrate why some people are reluctant to wear poppies, where in past years they may have worn them.
The RBL using poppies as a recruitment tool, not as symbols of remembrance?

My DD and DH wear one and I don't. Mainly because I don't like feeling obliged to contribute to things. I work in a school and most of the pupils and teachers will wear one. I've never been challenged about it though.