AIBU to insist that ds loses no more break times

[OnLikeDonkeyKong]

I'll try and keep this fairly short. Ds y6 has lost 2 break times today because a parent has made a complaint against him. Her ds said my ds has asked another student to ask him something rather rude and head teacher has said ds has lost all breaks until she believes he can behave. I am furious that it's all very he said, she said and that ds hasn't been believed at all but the other child who could have made the whole thing up ( they don't get on) doesn't seem to have been questioned, just believed straight away.
My AIBU is would it be wrong of me to write to the head and say ds will not be losing anymore of his breaks and that I consider the matter closed. There is no proof and someone must be lying, whether that be ds or the other child I don't see how ds can be punished on the word of one person!

OP I'm sorry to hear you have so much on your plate vis fighting for support/diagnoses. Separate to that though, have you had open conversations with your DS vis sex and sexuality?

DS1 is gay and whilst he never needed to hide that in any way (we just knew IYKWIM, so my sole focus was on ensuring he grew up knowing that was just fine) and has had no bad experiences due to his sexuality; the same is sadly not true for many of his other mates who happen to be gay so they just repeatedly clammed up if anything that touched on sexuality came up

If for a moment you go with the theory DS did do this, do you think it might be possible that DS was, clumsily, trying to genuinely express feelings for the other boy? Would it be worth you having the conversation that it's cool to fancy whoever you fancy so that he knows you'd be ok with whatever sexual orientation he happens to have, and then also the conv. about what boundaries are appropriate (irrespective of that orientation).

If he knows he's gay but does not yet know that you'd be fine with that, it could explain why in this instance (versus the others you've alluded to him opening up about) he is so determinedly saying he didn't do it IYKWIM?

It's bloody late and I'm knacked so I hope I've phrased the above properly, apols if I haven't but I hope I've managed to convey gist of what I'm wondering Am very aware that my post is left field compared to the rest, but couldn't read and run knowing all I do now know vis the struggles some kids face.

What would be proof? Teachers often hsve to make a judgement about who is telling the truth. Your ds may well say he didnt say it. most kids deny these things esp if there is a sexual element to the comment as they know their parents will be annoyed and embarrassed. I heard a child call another something v unpleasant myself. When challenged later he completely denied it! I ended up having to v firmly insist to his parent that I had heard it personally. they still continued to tell me that their child didnt lie! However no break indefinitely is unreasonable. Your ds should have his punishment and move on. Speak to head re how many break times he needs to miss. tell your ds you are v disappointed in him and move on. if you think he has special needs go to the gp and ask for a referral.

I'm not sure I'm totally up to speed with this thread, but I just wanted to say that you are absolutely right to believe your son, if you don't who will? I absolutely would call the school and ask for clarification and I agree that break times shouldn't really be removed, bad behaviour often results of the need for a break and for a lot of children that is the chance to move around and burn off some wriggles.
I realise it's tricky teaching, I used to teach myself (don't currently as have small ones)
I totally believe that you need to be his advocate, but you probably need to have a conversation with him along the lines of 'of course I will always believe you and stand up for you, but I need you to be open and honest with me'
Best of luck.

As a teacher I often get the 'Are you calling my child a liar?' reaction. Usually I respond: 'No. He/she may be a liar, or may be mistaken/forgetful/confused.'

Redcar: I honestly don't understand this attitude of believing your child no matter what, just because they are your child. Virtually all children lie at some point or another. They lie because they don't want to get into trouble, to impress, to cover up embarrassment, to save someone else's feelings, to prevent someone else getting into trouble, or just because they feel like lying! It's not the end of the world, but don't encourage it by saying you will always believe them

Did the messenger child actually go and ask the other child?

Because if they did then they are actually at fault because in year 6 are able to say they won't be doing that.

its really hard when it's one word against another and schools often don't accept it unless theirs evidence.

Although this had just taught Ime children ro know they have to go in a group and tell tales and say they all heard something.

I can't get over how they have done all this and not even spoken to you - i a child has a complaint by another parent surely the first thing to do is to call their parent in and have a discussion about the situation.

Unfortunately this is one of the very real downsides of being the child who is always naughty, rude or troublesome at school. It becomes easy for other people to say you've done something wrong and you haven't. And it's easy for everyone else to believe them without really considering that they might be lying.

You can't ever get to the bottom of who is telling the truth here and neither can the teacher, but she spends every day with these children and will have a fairly good gut feeling for what has happened here. She sees things from your DS all day that you do not.

I think you should accept it and let the punishment stand. Try to use it as a chance to explain to your DS that if he is repeatedly naughty and cheeky at school then no-one will give him the benefit of the doubt when he's blamed for something he didn't do. So there's a lesson for him there and he might like to think not just about the immediate consequences of his actions, but the longer term implications as well.

I think you should use this incident as an opportunity to kick the school up the backside and get help for your DS.

I would make it clear that you are very unhappy that DS was not believed, but the most important thing is your son has anxiety, is pulling his hair out, does not get a good nights sleep and it is the schools job to support and help him.

Please make an appointment ASAP to see the teacher and head together, if possible.

You don't know there's no proof. There may be other children who witnessed it, who the Head/Class Teacher has spoken to who have confirmed what has been said. If the matter like this has been investigated in school, it will have been taken very seriously, they wouldn't just punish on the word of one other child.

As a teacher l find it strange that this punishment has been doled out but you haven't been informed or called in. If it's such a serious crime why aren't you being contacted. Also it's very obvious your dc has special needs and it doesn't sound like the school are taking any steps to get to the bottom of this.
Are you a teacher? Unfortunately l have often seen situations where a teacher says to another teacher that they believe their child has difficulties and that teachers back goes up as if they are being professionally challenged and they will not listen to the evidence.

Make an appointment. Do not go in all guns blazing. Ask for their side of the story. Keep cool at all costs as otherwise they will write you off. Keep an open mind. I agree with previous poster that you are the child's advocate so get the full story and then decide your response.

And insist on your ds getting help, support, diagnosis, everything he so obviously needs. Keep fighting for this part with Gp / school everyone involved. He needs support badly.

When I was around that age, those kinds of comments were heard frequently at school. Sex was the "latest thing" - something new to talk about. I am genuinely curious - are children severely punished for this kind of thing? A remark or question about sex? We were told not to be rude and that was the end of it.

Try to get a referral to the community paediatrician for an ASD assessment. In your communication with school, keep on about his social communication difficulties - that he takes things literally, and this might cause him problems with peers and makes him vulnerable to incidents like the one described. Quite how an open ended punishment with no clear idea of what he is to do is going to help, I don't know, but I guess the tracher was stressed and may think again.

The punishment seems extremely harsh for what might have been a just a silly remark not to mention something that might have been made up by the messenger. The messenger should be being punished also if he delivered the message and more so if he made it up (although I suppose it cannot be proven that he made it up, same as it cannot be proven that your DS said it) A good talking to to both DS and the messenger, informing both sets of parents would seem a more appropriate way of going forward.
Your DS obviously needs more support from school and probably services outside school. Good luck . Sometimes I found putting things in writing in a letter made teachers take a complaint more seriously. They would have to follow up with a meeting or phone call then.

Oh and FWIW, I remember these sorts of remarks or games going on at that age when I was in school. No one took much notice then - you'd probably just get a telling off if caught saying something naughty.

YABU if you think the Head will do as you tell her if you insist that your child shouldn't be punished. She is the person who runs the school and has the final say. Of course, you do have the right to take your child out and find a new school for him, and I'm sure the Head would be delighted if this was to happen. Good luck though in trying to find another school who would be willing to take him with his behaviour. Rather than battling the school, you might be better to work on his behaviour - if he's like this at 6, he'll get worse if he isn't dealt with more firmly.

When your child is at school he is in the care of the staff and ultimately the Headteacher. You can't demand that your son isn't punished according to school protocol.I would advise speaking to the head to find out why he/she took that action before you start demanding special treatment.

*Even murderers etc are not allowed to be punished without an indication on when the punishment will end.

regardless of whether he did it or not, you can't give a child a punishment with no end - that's cruel.*
The punishment ends when the bad behaviour stops generally. Children are told everyday what is expected of them, classrooms have behaviour incentives etc.

But why can't I say I expect the matter to be closed? There is no proof ds did anything wrong!

Wouldn't it be better to wait until you've discussed this with the school before repeatedly insisting "there's no proof"? Obviously nobody here knows either way, but there's usually a reason why staff decide these things one way or the other, which I'm sure they'll be able to explain to you

would it be wrong of me to write to the head and say ds will not be losing anymore of his breaks and that I consider the matter closed

Also I'm truly sorry, but the above doesn't really match with your statement that you support the school. There's absolutely nothing wrong with querying what's been done - after all everyone makes mistakes and if that's happened here it's important that it's put right

But you really don't get to dictate when a matter should be closed or to demand exceptions, at least without a lot more information

I don't understand why it's a matter of "he said, she said". It really isn't because all of the protagonists are at the school together and this could be investigated by questioning the children concerned.

I agree with OP that this matter does need to come to a conclusion because an open-ended punishment really isn't fair, particularly if the accusation is denied and this remains in dispute.

OP - go and see the headteacher and explain that you want this to be properly investigated and dealt with, now.

Just came on to say exactly what lyingwitch has said
Sometimes schools look for the easiest solution

Hi, having slept on it I agree that you're all right. I am going to make an appointment to go in to school and speak with the head before I make my case for ds.
I think I am entitled to say I have always supported the school. Ds has been in a fair amount of trouble and I have never queried his loss of break time or any punishment given. I have also suggested a home / school book or some kind of report to keep me in the loop with school as I often only hear from ds that he's lost a break time.
We have had a talk and I have told him that I will support him in his innocence but if he has lied to me then he will have lost my trust and it is very hard to gain back. He took this on board and is adamant he is telling the truth.
I understand that children lie to get out of trouble but in this scenario I really do believe him. I also feel that because the other 2 involved (student on apparent receiving end and go between) were questioned together who's to say that they haven't lied or agreed with each other to get out of trouble?
I will wait to hear the head's point of view before I discuss my feelings. I will be calm and I will have the statement my ds has written to keep his points in my head

I had issues with school not being helpful in regards to a dx. Does your son attend any clubs or activities that could back you up? The more the better imo. Then it shows the school is being difficult - and peads often see this so won't be surprised!

Ds won't attend any activities pumpkin... he won't go!