To take DS out of preschool? Advice needed.

[JCBFastrac]

DS is 3, started preschool in Sept this year. We knew it would be difficult for him as he's never been looked after by anyone except me, DH or grandma. Wasn't too bad at first but once he got wind that I would always leave him there, he's become incredibly upset about going. Today I took him in for the second time since half term week and it's been terrible. DH has been having to come with me to help as DS been getting so upset in the car on the way there that I can't concentrate on driving. It takes a while to persuade him to go into the building and he's so distressed when we leave him. When we're at home, he keeps asking 'we not going to preschool today?' so he's clearly dreading it.

The staff there have been very helpful and supportive and they insist that it will get better and that if he doesn't learn this lesson now then there may be real problems when it comes to starting school next year.

The staff put observations/photos on an online site so that we can see what he's been doing there and he usually looks happy and engaged. He obviously resigns himself to the fact that he's there and gets on with it.

DH and I are seriously considering taking him out of preschool because it's causing him so much distress, but we honestly don't know what is the best thing to do.

Take him out. It's not worth it. He'll be ready for school when he's ready for school.

My ds cried every day for months, but was fine when i left. In fact ds is now 10 and this is the first year he has not been upset in the mornings! I'd not take your child out as there is no guarantee they will "grow out" of this feeling.

I think that if be hadn't settled after the first 6 weeks he's obviously not enjoying it and the stress for both of you isn't worth it.

When my mum started teaching it was normal for children to start at nearly 5 having been nowhere for childcare other than their own home or grandma's. Virtually all of them came to school 'ready.' As far as I'm aware, pre-school education initially came in for the benefit of children whose parents couldn't meet their needs. Obviously along the way it has become universal, but for a lot of children it doesn't offer much that they can't learn from a loving adult at home. So don't feel that he will be missing out. He's still so little to have to go through such stress and if you will all be happier with him at home then keep him at home.

I'd agree that pre school isn't necessary and is doesn't have any bearing on how they settle into school.

I kept my DS1 in preschool despite him finding the whole experience very upsetting. I listened to the staff, friends and family who told me that it was good for him, he needed to get used to being apart from me etc. When we got his 'I can do' book at the end of the year, in every photo of him, he was tear-stained, forced smiles or no smiles. I had been told he was fine as soon as I left - he clearly wasn't.

He is now a well adjusted happy settled 8 year old. I don't think preschool did him any harm, but with hindsight I wish I'd trusted my gut and taken him out.

Dd went to preschool a handful of times but I took her out as I didn't feel it necessary for her to go (was still home with baby ds). Everyone said she'd struggle when it was time to start proper school, but she was absolutely fine. If he's not ready for preschool, then he's not ready. Don't feel bad if you do end up taking him out.

I'm very pro pre school. But I really think you should take him out.

If he is not settled within 8 weeks then clearly he doesn't like it snd isn't enjoying it.

He is only 3. He wants to be with uou and that is entirely natural.

Is he a summer term baby? you could delay reception a year.

Don't let a belief in the 'system' make uou ignore your instinct.

I'm saddened by how many people think he should be forced to go when he's so distressed. One of my twins was very upset at the thought of preschool. In the end we tried 2 preschools and settled on a third. Most inconvenient travel-wise but they worked well with separation anxiety. They didn't expect him to be left until he was happy with the staff. I ended up stayin for nearly 8 weeks- but part of that because he'd been made so much worse by me leaving him at settings he didn't like. His twin was settled throughout. Some children need a different approach. OP, I'd take your ds out. It is not worth his level of distress and feeling abandoned and dreading it. He's 3!! incidentally both my twins have transitioned into reception- at a totally different school to the attached preschool they attended- with no tears or upset.

Oh- and I'd definitely delay his school start by a year.

I took my dd out of preschool. She was massively distressed at dropoff and we really tried for 4 weeks but it simply wasn't right for her. I was at home with ds anyway so pulled her out after a specific incident with crystallised my concerns over her unhappiness.

She still had a year at school nursery and cried there (and her reception year!) but it wasn't the high levels of distress.

It was definitely the right decision for us. Good luck whatever you decide.

I suppose I've felt that leaving him at preschool was the right thing to do as the staff there keep emphasising how separation is the biggest lesson they will learn and that it's all for the best. I'm really doubting that now though, surely some aren't ready for separation at the same time as all the others?

Separation shouldn't be that traumatic if they're ready. For some children it's the actual goodbye that upsets them not being separated.
One little boy I knew cried for the first 2-3 weeks of every term from reception to part way through Y2. He would say that he knew it was silly and he didn't know why he was crying but couldn't stop.
Another boy would get upset about saying goodbye to his mum, cry waving goodbye, have a cuddle and be absolutely fine for the rest of the day.

So, I guess it's whether you feel he's not happy, not coping or taking a while to adjust. What does his dad say?

Dad feels the same - we've decided to give it one more shot (on Monday) to see how he is then. If it's no better, or if we just get a bad feeling about it, then we've decided we'll pull him out.

I just feel disappointed that the staff, although they are lovely, keep insisting that it's all normal and to keep going. They insist he's ready.

Speaking as someone whose children are in full time nursery (as I work full time) if you don't have to send him and he is not happy I would take him out.

I read a book recently about how they should be with us (as in Parents as Primary Carers) at least until they are 3 - Raising Babies by Stephen Biddulph. Made interesting reading.

Pre school isn't essential. If it's distressing him then take him out.

I wonder whether he'd find it easier if his two mornings were consecutive days instead of split.

I think its unfair to be disappointed in the staff, lots of children do cry so it's normal to them.

I run a preschool, and I would say, drop him if as quickly as possible, (staying only confuses them, as they wont know from day to day if you are staying.

Try and do shorter sessions so it's not a long period of time. If you want to stay when you pick him up for a bit that's would be better than when you drop off.

Is there any where you can wait? Round a corner so you can hear if he's still crying, so you don't leave until he's stopped. It will reassure you if he's stopped crying when you leave, and you can get a better picture of how long he is upset for?

If you take him out now, you take a chance that when he starts school the same thing will happen, but you will have less control over how to settle him.

Defering isn't that simple as people are led to believe. If you start him a year later, you have to apply for extended 15 hours finding for preschool and when/if you change schools you have to appile for deferment again.

There is a child at my son's preschool who screams the whole way there, really, properly crying, tears, the works. Even worse as mum actually takes him in- but within seconds, minutes on the worst days, he is absolutely fine. I've seen this myself, and I know sometimes mum has hung around without him knowing too.

He probably really is fine- if he wasn't, I'm sure preschool would want to work with you on it as their day would be unbearable! Do they have anywhere you could wait around for half an our like ours does? As long as he thinks you've left as normal, he should act as he normally does.

I would take him out too.

My dd used to be like him. Asking all the time when she was going to nursery and worrying about me leaving her, sobbing on the way there. The teacher would have to prise her little fingers off me.
Nursery kept saying she was fine as soon as I was out of sight. They told me to stand out of sight and listen. And she was. She stopped crying the second I wasn't there.

I now realise that she stopped because she was so shy that she didn't want the staff to feel the need to comfort her. She didn't want them to hug her (which is what anyone wants to do when you see a distressed child). She also hates others to see her cry. So she wasn't crying anymore. But she still felt distressed.

I feel awful now for taking her. The staff did their best and were lovely and to all appearances she was 'fine' once I had gone.

I should have had more confidence in myself and the fact that I know my child better than anyone.

I now home educate both my children (not related to how nursery went). My dd should have started school in September. She would have hated it. The stresses and worries would have overwhelmed her as she is a very thoughtful little stresshead. She is doing so well now. We go to activities and she leaves me to work with the person leading the activity. She likes me to stay but I don't HAVE to. She is often with her big sister and that gives her the confidence to make friends and learn in a more relaxed environment.

I wish I had taken her out of nursery after a few weeks of trying. Children are 'school ready' in their own time. In this country we are made to feel that everything is all about preschool and school and that there are no other worthwhile options out there. They are so little when they start school. It's no surprise some find it difficult. I'm not sure preschool makes the transition easier. The kids that settle into preschool probably would have started school just fine if they hadn't been anywhere. if kids find separation hard at 4, why would it help to start them separating at 3? Surely leaving it till they are older and more confident would make more sense?

Different approaches work for different children. Some of my friends have had children in nursery from 2 and they are great, well adjusted children. Some haven't been to nursery or school. Also great, well adjusted children.

You know your ds best and will make the right decision because of that.

That's really interesting about your DD, baddyface. I do feel that while the staff at the preschool are really nice, they seem to think that all children are the same in terms of dealing with separation. As in, the quicker you do it, the better! I don't see how this can possibly work with all children. After his last session, DS was really subdued and I could tell he's not enjoyed it. I am still a bit disappointed in the staff though, as despite telling them my concerns, they stick to the same kind of mantra 'the quicker you do it, the better and if you don't do it now, what will he be like when school comes around?'

Feel really disillusioned and starting to wish we lived in a country with a different education system.

JCB - I think generally speaking maybe a quick drop off does work for many kids and it's the goodbye that is the hard part. Like you say though, it can't work for ALL children. I can still remember feeling awkward and uncomfortable at school even after my mum had left. I behaved impecibly though as I didn't want any attention on me. I'm still like it now to a large extent but as an adult I have more control of myself and the situations I put myself in.

Good luck with your decision.

It can be fairly normal for a child to be a bit distressed initially at drop off. I've never yet worked with a child who doesn't settle fairly quickly and get on with enjoying it. That's not to say it never happens, but just not IME. Same can happen when they start school. Quick drop offs are best, experienced staff will settle a child quickly, they've seen it all before. Might be an idea for Dad to try drop-offs on his own, so you aren't getting anxious in the car?

Pupils I've taught who didn't go to pre-school have all been 'behind' their peers on starting school as they've often not done a lot of work on phonics, number, scissor skills, pencil control etc., plus the general lining up/sitting down with others/taking turns etc. Coming straight into school can be bewildering for a child. If you don't do nursery, at least do things like playgroup, or music groups/messy play where they are socialising.

Yes I think it's great to practice fine and gross motor and would assume that most parents would do some forms of socialising in playgroups, with friends etc. We can all teach our kids to be polite and mindful of others.
It's the idea that a 4 year old is seen as 'behind' peers if they don't tick off things on a certain check list that has been a big influence in taking my kids out of school altogether. No child should be seen as behind anyone. They all have different strengths and weaknesses just as adults do. It's just that adults don't get judged on a checklist against their peers generally.

keep, are children really expected to have done proper phonics learning before school? Surely school should be where they actually learn it? I don't think DS will have any problems with scissor use/pen control.

Nursery is classed as 'early learning', so although they won't be doing formal phonics like in school, they will be being introduced to phonics, numbers, colours etc through songs, games, art etc. It's done very gently so a natural progression that carries on once they start school. In Scotland, nursery and primary one are following the same level in the curriculum so are expected to have met many of these targets in nursery.

I would count myself as a failure as a mother if my 4 year old started school not knowing any colours and numbers (unless they had SN). They're things that in most homes are talked about naturally - in 'good' homes children don't have to go to nursery to learn them.