Trick or treaters letting themselves in

[Backaffyaspookybitch]

First off, I've had a hard day so I might be slightly narky.

My DS has been ill all day - loaded with the cold and a temp of 39. I've just picked him up from my mum's (been at work all day) and trying to get him into a cool bath and get some calpol down down him. He's just miserable and my DH is working away.

I put him in the bath and I hear the door. I know it'll be trick or treaters but I can't leave my son in the bath (he's 2) so I decide to just ignore it and see if they come back later.

Oh no. The door opens and in walks the boy from next door whom I do know accompanied by 4 or 5 other children! Their mums are standing at the bottom of my garden shrieking with laughter and encouragement.

These children were standing in my hall way shouting and laughing

I got my DS out the bath, ran down the stairs and I asked them to leave and closed the door.

I actually got a bit of a shock that they'd be so bold!

I never even gave them sweets

WIBU to ask them to leave?

I disagree that it's foreseeable on Halloween. We've been decorating our house and garden every year since the late 90s, for our own DC and for excited children in the neighbourhood. Not once has any child attempted to enter the house. IN OP's case, where she clearly is not participating, I'd have been furious.

Negligence is a tort Francis.

Human rights are almost always balanced.

Whether someone has a right to enter your home is not in question. Even trespassers are protected from a homeowner's negligence because you can't just answer 'well you shouldn't have been there anyway' when someone has been harmed in a negligent manner.

You might have your damages reduced for contributory negligence but still...

In Scotland?

On the whole dog/locked door debate:

Owners of dogs who are on the dangerous dogs list of breeds, or dogs who have been known to show aggressions not the past, must ensure their dog is not a danger to others. The dog must be vaccinated, neutered, tattooed, microchipped, registered with DEFRA, muzzled, kept on a lead in public by a person over the age of 16, housed securely and not allowed to escape or stray.

An owner is liable to prosecution, which can include a custodial sentence, if found guilty of failing to control their dog.

My point was simply that it is not based on statute.

You are not negligent for having a dog and not locking the door. What you are doing is risking negligence if your dog gets out and injures someone.

Simples.

I really don't care whether people lock their doors or not anyway! I frequently don't lock my own doors. I've been away while weekends with my doors unlocked, once with my side door open.

I accidentally left the front door open when I went away to America for a month.

My point is just that I know I would have some liability for the consequences that resulted from me not securing my property.

If I was burgled I wouldn't have been able to claim on my insurance etc.

So if you want to leave your doors unlocked with a house full of poisonous snakes, dangerous wiring, collapsing walls and tigers I don't really care. I just know that you will be liable for the consequences of that because it isn't responsible.

Back in the days when I was at law school, it was based on statute; the Occupiers Liability Acts of 1957 and 1984. Though occupier's liability isn't my particular specialism, I can't recall any cases which impose tortious liability on the householder for injury which is neither due to the state of the premises nor reasonably forseeable. I'd be very surprised if any court would hold that merely leaving one's door unlocked would be categorised as negligence sufficient to attract liability. Though if Offred is a lawyer currently practising in this area, there may be cases of which I'm not aware. Always happy to be educated by those better informed than I.

Though any parent who allows their child to just open someone's door and go into a stranger's house is a dick of the first order, and a slack parent.

But Offred, any 'negligence' hinges on how the dog gets out. Total stranger opening your door uninvited and letting your dog out does not equal homeowner negligence.

Occupier's liability partially modifies tort of negligence, which is a tort.

The problem with the whole conversation is simply that people have made up fairly silly stories to justify being mean and nasty and judgemental about other parents they have no clue about.

At no point have I said someone would be guilty of negligence. I said they may. And they may, if someone was harmed in their silly scenario and the court perceived it as reasonably forseeable.

If someone opening your door on Halloween is considered 'reasonably forseeable'.

Since several ppl have reported doors being opened on Halloween and banging even though there were notices it's clearly not all that rare.

Well what I actually said is that if your dog got out and bit someone you would be negligent.

A child opening an unlocked front door on Halloween is an 'intruder' now?!

Ha ha!

If your unlocked door resulted in your dog getting out and biting someone then you may be negligent.

If some burgles you or steals your bag or your car your insurance may be invalid.

If someone comes into your home and is injured you may be liable even if they are a trespasser.

None of these are controversial points and all of them are reasons to keep your door locked, to which you may attribute varying degrees of risk, based on your assessment of your own circumstances. 'I have a right to leave my door unlocked' or 'locking my door is a pain in the arse' doesn't make much difference in terms of an argument in any of these circumstances.

It'sreasonably foreseeable on Halloween that people might come into my house uninvited
Can Guarantee they'd wish they hadn't

off yes anybody entering my house that i do not know is an intruder.
Child or adult. They are univited and not wellcome.

Fuck yes! A child opening a door on Halloween is an intruder.

Since when was Halloween an excuse for inexcusable behaviour?

I have never come across this as a "thing". If your child is not old enough to understand and has not been made to understand that they should not enter a house without an invite then they should not be trick or treating. Simple.

I cannot believe those people who are saying because it's Halloween this kind of thing is forseeable and fun for the kids.

bob a dog doesn't have to be a dangerous or banned dog to bite if you're an intruder.

No-one has said it is fun for the kids...

No-one has said it isn't annoying.

No-one has said it is a reasonable or excusable thing to do.

It is very silly to call a kid opening an unlocked door on halloween an intruder.... Pretty sure they mostly don't have criminal intent...

Foreseeability is not about it being right.

Well apart from the idiot parents who were goading and cheering on the kids at the op's house....

Offred There's plenty on the internet that would throw your assumptions about how trespassers are automatically protected by law into question. Intruders can be defined as "someone who is in a place or situation where they are not wanted" so yes, children can be intruders. No mention of criminal intent.